|
|
Post by steev on Jun 27, 2016 20:12:26 GMT -5
I've spent many blissful moments and hours watching various of our more distant kin going about their lives; I think it's been enriching, enlightening, and connecting.
|
|
|
|
Post by templeton on Jun 28, 2016 4:11:05 GMT -5
I love this project, audacious, intiguing, counter-intuitive to 'normal' gardening and plant breeding. Tickles my fancy! Will this sp cross into lycopersicum, Joseph Lofthouse? t |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jun 28, 2016 13:58:08 GMT -5
Thanks templeton. Solanum pennellii will cross into lycopersicum as a pollen donor. |
|
|
|
Post by richardw on Jun 28, 2016 17:36:56 GMT -5
I wonder if Solanum aviculare could be used as pollen donor, its native to NZ&Ozie and called poroporo and kangaroo apple over the ditch
|
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 1, 2016 5:18:03 GMT -5
The F2 of one of the disease resistant ones I'm growing has very slightly open flowers, probably not enough for a little bee to get pollen out but maybe enough to pick up pollen from another plant. That's assuming it hasn't already been pollinated by the time the stigma becomes exposed. I have no idea exactly when pollination actually occurs. My Cherokee Purple and Pineapple are like that too, probably not providing pollen to others but maybe getting it from them. I have two each of them interplanted with Joseph Lofthouse's XH-9 and except for one of the pineapple they are heavily loaded with fruits. The F1 and F2 of the hybrid Red Rose are some of the most open, rivaled only by XH-9. The normal leaf F2 are showing much better fruit set than the potato leaf and better than the F1. Winners on fruit set with 15 or more nice fruits per plant currently growing (in the slicer patch) F1 hybred Mountain Merit - very indutrial flowers 2 of 2 plants normal leaf volunteer - very open flowers- believed to be Red Rose F2 - 1 of 1 plant Pineapple - semi open flowers - 1 of 2 plants XH-9 - very open flowers - 2 of 2 plants Cherokee Purple - semi open flowers - 2 of 2 plants There are twenty total in this patch and I am thinking of culling all but those 8 and direct seeding some new ones in their spots. I'v never seen such production on pineapple or CP. |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 2, 2016 0:50:42 GMT -5
HX-9 tomato is just starting to flower. The stigma is exerted. The petals could be bigger. Last year I said it had a great floral display. We'll see how it looks later in the season.  Today I used pollen from Solanum peruvianum to attempt to pollinate S. pennellii flowers. Solanum peruvianum has a glorious floral display. The flowers are strikingly visible, even from across the garden. The photo doesn't capture the vividness of the display.  |
|
|
|
Post by templeton on Jul 2, 2016 1:41:24 GMT -5
Was just musing on this thread, then had an idea, read the 'pea landrace' thread to find joseph had already thought of it - probably posting as I thought of it. (Trans-pacific shamanism....  ) Here goes: joseph is actively using varieties with open flowers and other characteristics to increase natural crosses. I was thinking another approach that's a bit more passive would be to just look for naturally occuring hybrids in varietal growouts with the idea that these would have some possibility of having traits that were more likely to cross. Grow em together, looking again for natural crosses. Might take a while. Might be more a case of occasional infidelity rather than promiscuity. You could get all the rejects from 'purist' growers as source material, if you could convince them to save seed. t |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 2, 2016 6:03:44 GMT -5
I'm taking the passive route, just planting together and saving seed from best ones. Here is XH-9 today, I couldn't get all the fruits in one picture but this is the jest of it.  |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 2, 2016 12:42:17 GMT -5
I went out after posting earlier and put a pink ribbon on the most open flower plants. Then went back and put a green one on the best fruit set, happy to see several end up with both. Pretty soon I can put a yellow ribbon on the best flavor ones. Hopefully some will then have three ribbons. I'm gonna make tags for individual plants to note things like disease tolerance, time till ripe and such.
I'm starting to feel like a real plant breeder now, I even culled plants that were under performing on fruit set, even a few with open flowers are history. It occurred to me maybe they were just later but they had plenty of spent flowers so I got rid of em.
|
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 3, 2016 4:58:53 GMT -5
They wouldn't pose for photos but two of the little sweat bees were enjoying this flower. The much prefer the ones with more open anther cones but they also land and explore the ones without. I'm guessing in the process they could be making crosses?  |
|
|
|
Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jul 3, 2016 20:14:37 GMT -5
while i understand the usefulness of an exerted stigma for your project, wouldn't it also require a 'pollen production delay' trait so that it doesn't self on the way out of the pollen cone? Just wondering how you are approaching this issue. I attempted a bunch of manual pollinations today. On the wild species, I noticed some plants in which the stigma was outside of the anther cone from the very beginning of flower formation. It started out exerted, and stayed that way for the entire life of the flower. On others, the stigmas were exerted many days before the pollen became viable. So it looks like this trait is well within the established pattern for tomato flowers. Therefore, it's just one more trait to include in the selection criteria. |
|
|
|
Post by philagardener on Jul 4, 2016 5:53:41 GMT -5
Any updates on the self-incompatibility project? Can't wait until they cross-pollinate!  |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 4, 2016 7:14:50 GMT -5
while i understand the usefulness of an exerted stigma for your project, wouldn't it also require a 'pollen production delay' trait so that it doesn't self on the way out of the pollen cone? Just wondering how you are approaching this issue. I attempted a bunch of manual pollinations today. On the wild species, I noticed some plants in which the stigma was outside of the anther cone from the very beginning of flower formation. It started out exerted, and stayed that way for the entire life of the flower. On others, the stigmas were exerted many days before the pollen became viable. So it looks like this trait is well within the established pattern for tomato flowers. Therefore, it's just one more trait to include in the selection criteria.
Do you think that might apply to others as well not just your wild species? I was wondering about that cause if they haven't already been selfed by the same flower then the ones with just exerted stigmas are easily being crossed by the little bees that are visiting. How can I tell??? I haven't been able to observe any actual pollen release as of yet. |
|
|
|
Post by philagardener on Jul 4, 2016 11:37:21 GMT -5
I attempted a bunch of manual pollinations today. On the wild species, I noticed some plants in which the stigma was outside of the anther cone from the very beginning of flower formation. It started out exerted, and stayed that way for the entire life of the flower. On others, the stigmas were exerted many days before the pollen became viable. So it looks like this trait is well within the established pattern for tomato flowers. Therefore, it's just one more trait to include in the selection criteria.
Do you think that might apply to others as well not just your wild species? I was wondering about that cause if they haven't already been selfed by the same flower then the ones with just exerted stigmas are easily being crossed by the little bees that are visiting. How can I tell??? I haven't been able to observe any actual pollen release as of yet. If you bag a cluster of flowers before they open and fruit develops, then they selfed. If fruit does not develop, then they didn't. So you can screen for the behavior you want. |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Jul 4, 2016 12:10:18 GMT -5
I think that would only tell me if the plant was self incompatible, I guess that would be interesting and a great find for those looking for that trait but I'm just trying to figure out at what point pollination occurs.
I want to know if the stigma even can be exposed without having already been self pollinated, if so then the possibility for crossing exists, even if self pollination is still also possible.
|
|
) Here goes: joseph is actively using varieties with open flowers and other characteristics to increase natural crosses. I was thinking another approach that's a bit more passive would be to just look for naturally occuring hybrids in varietal growouts with the idea that these would have some possibility of having traits that were more likely to cross. Grow em together, looking again for natural crosses. Might take a while. Might be more a case of occasional infidelity rather than promiscuity. You could get all the rejects from 'purist' growers as source material, if you could convince them to save seed.
