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Post by ferdzy on Dec 1, 2016 7:58:44 GMT -5
galina, no I have never heard of those. Interesting. Looks next to impossible to get though. I made no progress on this project this year. I tried crossing some beans but all the blossoms fell off. This is the first deliberate bean cross I have tried to make, so my technique was no doubt not that great, but also we had a lot of blossom drop in the beans (and other things!) this year as it was SOOOO hot and dry. I do remember when I first got Cherokee Trail of Tears a few years back, some of the plants had white seeds... which I carefully weeded out. Ho hum. My impression of CToT is that it falls somewhere between a variety and a landrace; many people complain they get crossed seed but I don't think so. I think it contains quite a lot of genetic variety naturally, which to me makes it a very interesting bean. That's why I weeded out those white beans - I assumed they were crossed beans and this was before I was interested in such things. Now, I'm not even sure that that was the case.
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Post by galina on Dec 1, 2016 12:35:11 GMT -5
That's a pity ferdsy, Keep growing them.
Have just found out that the p gene is responsible for white seeds. It is a master gene that controls all the colour genes. P means colours can operate on the seed coat and recessive p means no colour can be expressed, ie the seedcoat is plain white. And the mutation from P to p is relatively frequent apparently. You only need the one. Once the mutation has happened, it is stable.
Mine are from 13 and due for a grow-out in 17. Hope to be able to offer seeds by the end of next year or the year after should something go wrong with the grow-out next year. The potential source I quoted is in your country btw.
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Post by blueadzuki on Dec 1, 2016 20:29:29 GMT -5
Have just found out that the p gene is responsible for white seeds. It is a master gene that controls all the colour genes. P means colours can operate on the seed coat and recessive p means no colour can be expressed, ie the seedcoat is plain white. And the mutation from P to p is relatively frequent apparently. You only need the one. Once the mutation has happened, it is stable. I suppose that goes a long way towards explaining why white seeds so often come along with white flowers and a loss or delay of non-green coloration (for those plants that have it). |
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Post by galina on Dec 2, 2016 2:31:48 GMT -5
Blueadzuki, the p gene only refers to seedcoat colour afaik.
However, Mr Yeoman's Whiteseeded Cherokee Trail of Tears does indeed have white flowers and the change to purple on the pods happens much later too. The pods stay green for much longer than the black seeded ones. Growing experience would suggest at a wider connection beyond influence on seedcoat.
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Post by richardw on Dec 2, 2016 2:37:08 GMT -5
I grew the Cherokee Trail of Tears last summer but never had any white seeds. Good bean which grew well for me.
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Post by galina on Dec 2, 2016 3:13:20 GMT -5
There are a few beans that do well practically wherever they are grown. ChToT is one of them by many accounts. From dry, high Colorado to Kentucky, Canada, NZ and definitely England, on wet clay and equally on dry sandy soil. In good sunny summers and in cold rainy ones. It does not matter whether we think of this bean as a genetically broader 'landrace' right from the days of the Trail of Tears, or whether it has become one due to genetic drift accelerated by having been grown by many in different areas. We benefit from it all the same.
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Post by steev on Dec 2, 2016 3:37:33 GMT -5
Can't beat what thrives regardless; hot-house whiners are nice if conditions permit, but ya gotta have some chow to take care of 'em.
La pansa primera! Worry about pretty later.
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Post by ferdzy on Jan 29, 2018 8:37:45 GMT -5
It's bean a while (snort) but I can report that I finally got my Cherokee Trail of Tears - Blue Lake cross last year. Actually the year before; a nice black-seeded plant showed up in the Blue Lake this summer. One of the few bright spots in a summer that mostly sucked all over. So I did not make the cross manually, but planting the CToT and Blue Lake next to each other for years finally paid off.
I was hoping to kick the anthracnose's ass this year, but with the cool damp growing conditions it roared in like a hurricane mid summer. I confirmed that CToT is indeed much more resistant to it than the Blue Lake, and that the f1 cross was about as resistant as the CToT, so that's a good start. I also grew some Rocdor, which are a yellow bush bean with black seeds, because they are specifically described as very anthracnose resistant. I can confirm that that is true. They were growing right next to ground zero for the anthracnose and never showed a speck of it. Unfortunately I was not able to make a cross to Blue Lake from them but I will try again this summer. They have much shorter days to maturity being a bush bean and it will help to plant some a little later to get them to bloom more at the same time.
I also grew out some beans from a CToT - Annelino Yellow (I think) cross that I was quite impressed with, and I will be planting the f2s this summer too. Nice straight, slender dark green beans with a blush of purple and really tasty. Hope those qualities continue to show up.
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