Fall planting bulbils walking onion

[ottawagardener]

I've found that my walking onion produces sizeable bulbs so I'm experimenting with fall planting bulbils for summer onion bulbs. Anyone beat me to this?

[philagardener]

I planted bulbils last Fall too (when I was planting my garlic) and was surprised this season when they bulked up and started to look like real onions at the base. I didn't get many top sets on this planting this year, which made me wonder what will happen if I remove those (like garlic scapes) to help drive bulb development. That hadn't occurred to me before (after all, they are top onions) but that's on my to-try list for next year.

[ottawagardener]

I hadn't thought of that second part. Hmmm… I could use my mother patch to supply my summer onion (fall planted) supply. Interesting. I'll compare notes with you next year.

[paquebot]

Walking onions will never produce the same type of bulb that a seed onion will produce. The best that they will do is what are called "spring onions". They are same as scallions except that the bulb portions may be just over an inch across. That's what they were primarily grown for before seed types were developed. The main difference is that the necks will never close off like a common onion or potato onion.

Martin

[ottawagardener]

The thing is that mine has produced a sizeable bulb which I would call a summer onion in the same sense as those partially grown onions that have green attached.

Multiplier on the left, Walking onion on the right (In my fantasy land: multiplier would work as winter onion and walking as summer or non storage onion with greens)

[Walk]

The little bulbils can be potted up and brought inside to make green onion sprouts. If planted in the fall, or left to "walk", it takes more than a year to get big enough to harvest.

We dry the bulk of our annual harvest in the spring before the plants go to "seed". We dig the whole patch and put back one plant for each clump removed. It's nice having some dried onion on hand for late winter soups. Our bulbs are never as big as those in the picture, but we haven't removed the bulbils before they were mature. Interesting idea.

[paquebot]

Fall IS the natural time for planting walking onions. The topsets generally don't mature until August and then remain on the stem until it falls over by decay or force. It's already fall by the time they establish roots. It doesn't matter if the topsets are planted in the fall or spring as the results are the same. That is, a bulb will form and then bolt to topsets when it reaches a certain size according to variety. In both cases, the bulb is used up in a single season and will not get bigger if left to grow through another cycle.

Martin

[Walk]

Nov 11, 2014 13:49:19 GMT -5 paquebot said:

Fall IS the natural time for planting walking onions. The topsets generally don't mature until August and then remain on the stem until it falls over by decay or force. It's already fall by the time they establish roots. It doesn't matter if the topsets are planted in the fall or spring as the results are the same. That is, a bulb will form and then bolt to topsets when it reaches a certain size according to variety. In both cases, the bulb is used up in a single season and will not get bigger if left to grow through another cycle.

Martin

I misspoke about not getting big enough to harvest the next year from bulbils. I do get one nice green onion, just not a multiplied clump. When we put back one plant from each clump we harvest, they will multiply by the next year and provide another clump.

[ottawagardener]

Hmmm maybe I should clarify. I want to row plant these things in fall to give them enough space to plump up and then harvest them as summer onions (bulbs + greens) before they go to bulbils. I have a lot of these so lots of crowded bulbil started plants elsewhere.

[paquebot]

Walking onions have been around for centuries. They were the main garden onion until seed types were developed Nobody has ever been successful in changing their genes to produce bulbs and it's not going to happen now. If you want tender spring onion bulbs in the summer or early fall, watch those which have completed their life cycle and are dividing at the base. The new bulbs will be tender just like a spring onion.

You know that you can also eat the topsets. (Garlic produces bulbils, walking onions produce topsets.) They can be used for any old recipe calling for pearl onions. Catawissa types are usually too small to mess with but there are several varieties which produce topsets to almost an inch wide.

Martin

[ottawagardener]

I know I can eat the bulbils and enjoy them. I am not trying to change the genetics just like to mess with cultural planting styles. I'm also not trying to produce big bulbs or storage bulbs perse just more of what I showed in photo up here. I guess what I'm trying to do is to develop a planting system that works to produce what I want rather than growing them as they are traditionally grown around here: ie. as a self propagating green onion. I have seen multiple references to the bulbs being used of course but typically use them like everyone around here uses them: pickling the bulbils, storing and sprouting the bulbils, roasting and otherwise using the bulbils, picking and eating the greens. What I hadn't really thought about much was using the main bulb despite reading references to the fact.

It wasn't until I was messing around with the multiplier onions that I noticed that some of the walking onions produced wide bulbed bases like the picture above. In fact, I was harvesting seriously nice sized multipliers and the thought popped into my head "What size are the base bulbs of walking onion anyhow?" It hadn't occurred to me to check before. My desire for alternative onions (which expands to a number of other species of course ) comes from my often mediocre bulbing onions due to various climatic and pest pressures and general interest in exploration. In comparison, the walking onion base bulbs looked mighty fine so I wondered if it wasn't worth an experiment in cultural growing differences. So no desire to change the genetics. After all, though I'm among the many who've observed some flowers among the bulbils but no viable seed, I am not trying to collect true seed (but heck would if I found any) but seeing if by putting a minimum of effort into row growing them what would happen.

I guess my question is "Has anyone tried to row plant the bulbils with the express purpose of seeing if the base bulb + greens is a more useful vegetable than letting them spread naturally." Does that make sense?

[ottawagardener]

Now you might say that it's not a more useful vegetable, just use the bulbils like the rest of us darn it! but I don't see the harm in trying. In fact, I can post a picture of my row planted bulbils I find that most people that grow A. proliferum just allow it to proliferate, perhaps replanting clumps of bulbils but using it mostly as a green onion.

Here's the thing I've noticed with A. ampeloprasum 'Oeprei' (perennial leek), A. ampeloprasum 'LISP select' (pearling tendencies) and A. sativum (various). If you let them proliferate in clumps without transplanting in the fall, you get clumps. As per garlic, you get lots of greens but smaller dividing base bulbs. Admittedly, this is not the same plant/species! As for perennial type leeks, The same thing happens. Die back after flowering or top setting (many of you may have noticed that they will vegetatively replicate if the flowering head is damaged aka leek hair). Then self shedding of bulbils if produced by die back of flower stem and regrowth from dividing bulbs at base. If however, you divide and replant in the fall, you get a much more sizeable vegetable which makes sense given resource availability. Oeprei, in my experience, gives what looks to be in my climate a nearly full sized leek.

Okay, so A. proliferum is not A. cepa or A. ampeloprasum or A. sativum and has characteristics specific to it. However, within these parameters, I am curious what is its potential as a row grown swollen base onion. Maybe nothing but maybe something.

My suspicion is there are environmental considerations as well. It seems that I grow some massive multipliers at times and huge top sets. Though this is partially genetic. There is no doubt climatic/environmental/cultural interactions with genetics as well. So though one response might be 'why bother when bulbing onions do well and walking onions are great greens." My response would be "Bulbing onions are challenging for me but walking onions are not."

Anyhow, I can't see any harm in the experiment.

[paquebot]

As long as one goes into the walking onion game with expectatons no higher than spring onions, there will never be any disappointments or thoughts of wasted efforts. What I see here is also a misconception of what a "spring onion" is. That's a stage between scallion and bulb and applies to both topset and seed types. It does not mean that they are available only in the spring. Locally, they are a favorite item at a farmers market and nobody can distinguish if they are a topset or seed onion type. The topset type is the earliest in May and then seed types are generally available through much of the summer. Best definition that I've seen is: "If the bulb is rounded and pudgy, it's a spring onion. If it's straight and slender, it's a scallion."

archives.record-eagle.com/2007/may/21onions.htm

Martin

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Nov 12, 2014 9:45:44 GMT -5 ottawagardener said:

Okay, so A. proliferum is not A. cepa or A. ampeloprasum or A. sativum and has characteristics specific to it. However, within these parameters, I am curious what is its potential as a row grown swollen base onion. Maybe nothing but maybe something.

I grow Allium proliferum both as a clump-forming perennial, and as a row-planted annual. I plant the annual crop any time of year as single bulbils. There is a sweet point in the life cycle of the annuals that is just after flowering in which the root bulbs are at their peak size and they are taking a bit of a rest before dividing and resprouting. Bulb diameter of my variety can be about 2" at that time. For storage I break the flower stem from the bulb.

Egyptian Walking Onions have become the main onion on my farm... I plant all season long and harvest them continuously during growing season.

I love growing bulbing onion sets. I used to always plant small sets that I got from growers in Texas. But then I made the decision that I would grow all of my own seed for every crop. Spending up to $100 per year to buy onion sets doesn't work for me any more. I really aughta spend the time to learn how to grow my own bulbing onion plants or sets. Weeds are my biggest problem with delicate little onion plants. I suppose that I could start them out in a specially prepared weed free nursery bed. Hmmm. One more project: learning how to create weed-free nursery beds.

[steev]

Multiple tilling until weeds stop sprouting.