Is QAL Contamination in Carrots Really All That Bad?

[blackox]

...Because the crossing with Queen Anne's Lace could result in some interesting combinations. QAL is also perfectly edible as long as it's caught in it's first year of growth.  So really the only thing at stake year is maintaining a "good" - looking carrot strain. They might not sell at market because of that but would still be fine for home use. Would it affect flavor that much?

[darrenabbey]

I would expect it to reduce the sweetness and increase the intensity of the carrot flavor. It might be useful in a breeding project, depending on the goal.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I haven't ever looked closely at Queen Anne's lace, but I'd also expect roots too fibrous to chew... And plants that go to seed soon after sprouting.

[castanea]

Edible and palatable are two different things. I have no doubt QAL is edible, but it's a famine food.

I'm sure there is variation among different wild QAL populations worldwide, but in southern Missouri the roots tend to have little taste and less sweetness, and after they are more than a few weeks old, the roots are very tough and difficult to chew.

So my opinion is yes, contamination is really that bad. I don't know what good qualities QAL would add to modern carrots. If you are looking for genetic variation, much better to plant varieties from Turkey, Afghanistan, Russia and India.

[billw]

Sounds like an experiment is in order!

[steev]

I'll be interested to hear about people's impressions of QAL/carrots; really! I hope they don't go silent.

[12540dumont]

If you don't have QAL, don't introduce it.


The Wild Carrot is still very much prevalent, particularly in the US where it was introduced from Europe and is the genetic source of edible carrots. Wild Carrot is found in sandy or gravelly soils and in wets areas. It is abundant west of the Cascades in Oregon and Washington where it is classed as a Class C noxious weed. Wild Carrot causes problems in pastures, hay fields, Christmas tree farms, grass seed fields and most other open areas that are not tilled annually. It is an especially serious threat in areas where carrot seed is produced because it hybridizes with the crop and ruins the seed.

Washington state has gone so far as to quarantine the plants to prevent any further escapes into its wildlands and agricultural regions. It is illegal to transport, buy, sell or distribute seed there. The penalty is a $5,000 fine.

QAL can quickly become an obnoxious weed, it can spread very quickly. Its root is small and spindle shaped, whitish, slender and hard, (tender when young), but soon gets tough, with a strong aromatic smell.

There is no record of wild carrot toxicity in the US but in Europe wild carrot has been known to be mildly toxic to horses and cattle.

I would say the worst thing about wild carrot QAL is that it looks just like Poison Hemlock. (Okay, really really close.) How close, enough that if you showed it to someone and they tried to eat it in the wild, yup, the could poison themselves.

Where I live there is abundant Poison Hemlock in all the places QAL would grow. But the stems are hairy.

QAL in carrots tastes bitter and it's really ugly.

I can't think of why you'd mix it in, unless you were trying to create a terminator carrot.....QAL is used as a morning after drug. So, if your making a morning after carrot juice/QAL thing, well I'm sure you'll find a market for it. A less bitter pill than an unwanted pregnancy I guess.

But gosh, have pity on those of us who live where QAL is not, and don't bring it here.

[ilex]

Unless you are after some specific genes, there's more than enough diversity among domesticated carrots.

I get crosses every year, and I get crossed seed even in seed packets. Sometimes they are very vigorous, but very thin and fibrous.

I don't think it's a good idea. Incorporate very old germplasm instead.

[blackox]

Thanks for the replies and extra insight.

I wasn't thinking about intentionally growing QAL. Actually I wasn't thinking about incorporating them in any breeding project on purpose either. There's just so much of the stuff here already that just about the entire lawn and all unforested wild areas are made up of QAL. (One reason I am so adamant about keeping the grass mowed.) If I was to even try to remove it all then my sanity would be in question. (I am working to control them, tirelessly.) Roundup and chemicals in general are not an option for me. I'm really just wanting to save my own carrot seed, I'm also tired of buying them.

I'm not sure if a perfectly palatable carrot is on the top of my priority list. If anything else I may still save seed from them, if not just for fun & fodder. If I add new genetic material each year, and quite a bit of it, would the QAL genetics eventually become diluted?

I know how to distinguish wild carrot from Poison Hemlock. In fact, we have both here including many other plants in the same family. Stems, growth habit, leaf arrangement/size/shape, and number of petals are all things that I use when distinguishing them.

[blackox]

I'll see if I can dig up some QAL roots in the spring, so I can try them out for myself.

[samyaza]

I'd never have thought wild carrot could be classified a noxious weed. It behaves gently here, growing a few here and there in its native prairies, as for wild parsnip. Both seem to love heavy soils and grasses, where their cultivated counterparts would never thrive. They suffer a lot of mowing.

joseph : does it really goes to flower so fast at yours ? I've noticed annual tendency only in cultivated carrots so far. Could it be due to your climate ?

12540dumont : poison hemlock and carrot are pretty easy to distinguish. The later one has significantly narrower and thinner leaves, the flower about to open is very typical and its root has a very strong and appetizing smell of... carrot, while poison hemlock smells like cat urine, nothing comforting. It's also invasive, and mowing doesn't kill them that easy.

I've just found that a native species grows along the west coast : Daucus pusillus, the tiny carrot. There's a significant number of species around the northern hemisphere, some are very endemic. I wonder if they could be a source of novel genes. I suppose your Queen Anne's Lace is Daucus carota. I've always thought it was native to the both worlds.

Nevertheless, I also strongly recommend isolating it from your garden, at least if you don't aim at growing a new fiber crop or developing your jaw. There's too many quantitative traits to breed out.

Imagine how crazy were the people who grew it at the very start, while a lot of other wild roots were far more desirable. It makes me think of corn compared to teosinte, which is of the most advanced crops mankind has ever bred.

[reed]

I think I can keep any significant amount of QAL at least a few hundred feet from my carrots. I haven't ever tried to grow carrot seed before, I'm hopeful they may not even flower exactly the same time as it does. I'll locate some QAL next year and watch it, don't expect any carrot seed till 2016.

I'm glad to learn Hemlock has a non-carrot like smell.

[castanea]

Jan 9, 2015 3:27:23 GMT -5 12540dumont said:

If you don't have QAL, don't introduce it.


The Wild Carrot is still very much prevalent, particularly in the US where it was introduced from Europe and is the genetic source of edible carrots. Wild Carrot is found in sandy or gravelly soils and in wets areas. It is abundant west of the Cascades in Oregon and Washington where it is classed as a Class C noxious weed. Wild Carrot causes problems in pastures, hay fields, Christmas tree farms, grass seed fields and most other open areas that are not tilled annually. It is an especially serious threat in areas where carrot seed is produced because it hybridizes with the crop and ruins the seed.

Washington state has gone so far as to quarantine the plants to prevent any further escapes into its wildlands and agricultural regions. It is illegal to transport, buy, sell or distribute seed there. The penalty is a $5,000 fine.

QAL can quickly become an obnoxious weed, it can spread very quickly. Its root is small and spindle shaped, whitish, slender and hard, (tender when young), but soon gets tough, with a strong aromatic smell.

There is no record of wild carrot toxicity in the US but in Europe wild carrot has been known to be mildly toxic to horses and cattle.

I would say the worst thing about wild carrot QAL is that it looks just like Poison Hemlock. (Okay, really really close.) How close, enough that if you showed it to someone and they tried to eat it in the wild, yup, the could poison themselves.

Where I live there is abundant Poison Hemlock in all the places QAL would grow. But the stems are hairy.

QAL in carrots tastes bitter and it's really ugly.

I can't think of why you'd mix it in, unless you were trying to create a terminator carrot.....QAL is used as a morning after drug. So, if your making a morning after carrot juice/QAL thing, well I'm sure you'll find a market for it. A less bitter pill than an unwanted pregnancy I guess.

But gosh, have pity on those of us who live where QAL is not, and don't bring it here.

"I can't think of why you'd mix it in..."

In southern Missouri it can take over fields. It readily self seeds.

[ilex]

QAL is usually white, and white is dominant. If you don't grow any whites, those that appear are crossed and you can cull them. Growth habit is usually different too.

You could also grow the seed crop inside isolation cages, or grow huge amounts of flowering plants and take seed from the central ones.

In any case, it's a must that you lift and inspect your carrots.

[ferdzy]

I grew out some carrots from the LISP, and while many of them were really good, there was a significant minority of slightly purple streaked white ones which bolted - and bolted early - the first season. I don't know if these were domesticated carrots reverting to a wild type, or if some QAL got mixed in. Either way, they were not good carrots.

I would like to grow carrots for seed and I too have problems with massive quantities of QAL in our yard and neighbourhood. I am working on pulling it out wherever I see it within about 100 feet of the garden beds. I expect it to take several years before I have much impact though. In the mean time, I will just keep checking my carrots and cull, cull, cull as needed. Do my best to keep them isolated, of course, but don't expect to completely achieve it.