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Post by galina on Mar 22, 2017 17:39:52 GMT -5
Thank you Toad. Yes unfortunately Springer articles come with a price tag. Didn't expect that as it is such an old article. Appreciate the url.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 22, 2017 19:06:45 GMT -5
Sometimes there are resourceful people on this forum who may send you a pm with a pdf of a free article. So, don't loose hope yet!
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Post by walt on Mar 23, 2017 15:17:13 GMT -5
Late fall or early winter, Springer has had a free viewing to get more members. Or maybe out of the goodness of their hearts. maybe.
This has been going on for some years. I have forgotten to check the last two years, so this might be ancient history.
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Post by galina on Mar 24, 2017 14:20:17 GMT -5
It would be good to catch one of those days, thanks Walt
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 24, 2017 23:36:12 GMT -5
I could not find a free copy of the Lamprecht article 1953 "New and hitherto known polymeric genes of Pisum". But i did find a copy of "Further data on the genes controlling anthocyanin pigmentation in the pea" by Bogdanova, V.S., Trusov, Y.A. and Kosterin, O.E., 1995. hermes.bionet.nsc.ru/pg/27/PG27_1_4.pdfI also found this cool thesis paper: CHARACTERISATION OF GENES EXPRESSED IN VARIOUS TISSUES OF PEA (PISUM SATIVUM L.) ; CORRELATION OF GENOTYPE AND PHENOTYPE etheses.dur.ac.uk/2216/1/2216_226.pdf |
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Post by steev on Mar 25, 2017 0:39:22 GMT -5
Gotta love the "research inclined".
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Post by galina on Mar 26, 2017 4:09:34 GMT -5
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Post by templeton on Mar 26, 2017 7:06:18 GMT -5
had a look at my library's access, and i can't get it - sorry Galina.
T
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Post by galina on Mar 27, 2017 17:04:52 GMT -5
Thanks for looking templetonI did get the gist from posts on here. Purple to green (Pur to pur a and pur b) just happens. It happens, all too frequently and that explains my difficulties with the Shiraz cross. And it explains why I had two different looking F1 plants, one with much greener pods, and the second only had fully purple pods at the start of the season, then they too 'switched' to much greener. All the agonising whether something had gone wrong with the cross to produce two different F1 plants, when actually a shift to a 'lesser form of purple' explains it all. Even if I can't get the paper, I've gained much insight I did not have before. Thank you all who commented. |
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Post by philagardener on Mar 27, 2017 17:31:25 GMT -5
I have a line of purple-podded parsley-leafed peas (leaflets in place of tendrils) that traces back to Alan Kapuler that keeps throwing off non-purple podded offspring, generation after generation. Essentially, Alan K. was unable to stabilize the purple-podded trait (and the parsley-leaf phenotype requires a bunch of stacked recessives, so it is not outcrossing) and said to keep selecting the purple pods - which I have done but it simply doesn't want to settle down. Very curious indeed!
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Mar 27, 2017 18:43:45 GMT -5
Well, with my experience with purple indian corn i can tell you that most often the anthocyanins are temperature influenced. What i secretly don't tell people is that the one year i got a corn plant to turn completely purple while all the others all reverted back to green during the season is that that was the corn plant in the front of the row that got cold water on it early in the morning and late at night as i watered them by hand.
Something similar happens with the peas sometimes. When a dry/hot summer hit that one year Shiraz was one of the worst purple varieties that were affected. Maybe that's why i didn't like it so much. It also was very leathery for a "snow" pea and 10 years of breeding. I think some of the other varieties were much more purple despite the heat, and that means that they could have better genetics and/or less reliance on temperature dependence.
I think you will still have times when some revert to partially purple, but i do believe there can be some influence through selecting the ones that hold it better.
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Post by steve1 on May 20, 2017 1:24:54 GMT -5
galina, sorry - Dropbox has changed all my folders around, so my pictures have disappeared from view recently. Give me a few weeks I'll get it sorted. The crux of the Lamprechts research was that there were multiple alleles for the purple pigment. So, there is full purple then medium then light then none. I think I prefer the explanation in Bogdanovas paper that the Pur or Pu is a modifier. Shiraz is interesting, it forms a distinct parchment layer especially with heat - but crosses to ppVV maintaining the dry shrunken pod characteristic indicating snow phenotype. I cannot explain that one...
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Post by nicollas on May 22, 2017 1:19:57 GMT -5
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Post by galina on May 24, 2017 9:26:00 GMT -5
Keen101, thank you for your observations. Yes I am switching from Shiraz to Alan Kapuler's Sugar Magnolia which does seem to be more constant in its purples. And I prefer its vigour and flavour too, a perfect pea were it not for the single podded trait.
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Post by galina on May 24, 2017 9:30:44 GMT -5
galina, sorry - Dropbox has changed all my folders around, so my pictures have disappeared from view recently. Give me a few weeks I'll get it sorted. The crux of the Lamprechts research was that there were multiple alleles for the purple pigment. So, there is full purple then medium then light then none. I think I prefer the explanation in Bogdanovas paper that the Pur or Pu is a modifier. Shiraz is interesting, it forms a distinct parchment layer especially with heat - but crosses to ppVV maintaining the dry shrunken pod characteristic indicating snow phenotype. I cannot explain that one... Thank you for the summary steve1. I haven't found that in Shiraz and none of the crosses with Shiraz and Court Estate Gold (snow pea/ mangetout pea) have ever had any fibre. But then it probably doesn't get all that hot here which may make a difference. Spontaneous mutations from p to P and v to V are not uncommon I believe and maybe heat is a trigger for those. |
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