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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 2, 2016 20:45:49 GMT -5
Are any of these TPS seed lines for diploid potatoes (2n=24) instead of the more common polyploids?
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Post by nathanp on Feb 2, 2016 21:17:33 GMT -5
Kennebec, Pontiac and all the commercial ones I know of are all tetraploid. You have to get outside the mainstream of potatoes to get diploids.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 2, 2016 21:47:11 GMT -5
Kennebec, Pontiac and all the commercial ones I know of are all tetraploid. You have to get outside the mainstream of potatoes to get diploids. browsing on Tom Wagners website several varieties listed are shown as diploid. I would think that although diploid potatoes might be smaller and less commercially developed that they might produce TPS more readily than tetraploids. But that's just my thinking. not sure if that is actually true. |
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Post by nathanp on Feb 2, 2016 22:03:59 GMT -5
Kennebec, Pontiac and all the commercial ones I know of are all tetraploid. You have to get outside the mainstream of potatoes to get diploids. browsing on Tom Wagners website several varieties listed are shown as diploid. I would think that although diploid potatoes might be smaller and less commercially developed that they might produce TPS more readily than tetraploids. But that's just my thinking. not sure if that is actually true. Yes that is generally true. Technically, the sterility lies within Solanum tuberosum 'Tuberosum group' with T type cytoplasm. It is just that commercial potatoes predominantly have T type cytoplasm since they are derived largely from a single potato line. The other tuberosum groups (Andigena, phureja, stenotonum) do not have this, whether diploid or tetraploid. In general: -diploids tend to be fertile, but need to cross pollinate to produce berries -tetraploids outside the T type cytoplasm may be fertile -not all potatoes produce berries every year - so many factors are in play; weather, heat, cold, light, availability of insects to pollinate them, etc. I am nearly done eliminating potatoes that don't flower or produce berries regularly. I probably have a handful of potatoes with sterility issues, but will drop them eventually. Maybe after this season? As for my list of TPS I plan to grow this year - I am focusing on mostly tetraploids this year. I'd like to find a few that produce large sized tubers this year. AKT (Adirondacksen x Kern Toro) 4x (tetraploid) Azule Rose F2 - Blue Fingerling 4x (tetraploid) Black Irish 4x (tetraploid) Barbara 4x (tetraploid) Chaposa 4x (tetraploid) CIP 396286-7 4x (tetraploid) Igorota 4x (tetraploid) Lumpy Diploid Fingerling 2x (diploid) Pirampo 2x (diploid) Picasso 4x (tetraploid) Saikai 35 4x (tetraploid) Skagit Valley Gold 2x (diploid) Magic Dragons X x-ajanhuiri Sisu F1 probably 4x (tetraploid) Magic Dragons X x-ajanhuiri Sisu F2 probably 4x (tetraploid) Satina 4x (tetraploid) Wharoroa (Mystery Red) 4x (tetraploid) Toro Pan 4x Di-Di-Rus 2x Tetra Mix 4x Kennebec "A" 4x GS 209 (LBR1,8,20,39,40,50) 2x |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Feb 3, 2016 0:32:26 GMT -5
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Post by nathanp on Feb 3, 2016 0:35:40 GMT -5
That's one of the latest new "in" trends. The commercial breeders are going to start using diploids. They can cut down on the number of generations it takes to select certain traits by using diploids, then converting to tetraploid once they have a more inbred line intact.
You can use the inbred SLI gene to fix the traits and prevent outcrossing.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Feb 3, 2016 0:39:45 GMT -5
nathanp: Do you practice isolation between your diploids and tetraploids to avoid getting triploids?
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Post by billw on Feb 3, 2016 0:47:46 GMT -5
In my experience, you get vastly more tetraploids than triploids when crossing levels with potato.
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Post by nathanp on Feb 3, 2016 0:48:16 GMT -5
nathanp: Do you practice isolation between your diploids and tetraploids to avoid getting triploids? No, I do not. More than likely, they won't produce triploids. They produce more tetraploids. Triploids and pentaploids are rare. It has something to do with EBN (Endosperm balance numbers), and the 4x x 2x cross has to have matching EBN for it to cross. Usually they result in tetraploids. Diploids can pollinate tetraploids if they are compatible. This is a little over my head, but this article explains it somewhat. linkThis one as well. pdf linkEDIT - just to add here, my knowledge of this is much more theoretical than experiential. My experience with TPS and potatoes only goes back a few years. Bill W has far more experience that I, but his experience is telling him the same thing these sources are saying. |
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Post by billw on Feb 3, 2016 21:58:18 GMT -5
In addition to about 20 of my own lines of seed, I am growing these this year.
12 Thumbs (D)
Blue Leslie (T)
Blue Rose (T)
Boyd Dude (T)
Careta Amarilla (D)
Chaucha Amarilla Larga (D)
Chaucha Curilla (D)
Chunguina (T)
Criolla Rosada (D)
Designer Roses (T)
Khuchi Koochi (D)
Limona (D)
Magic Dragons (D)
Mt. St. Helens (T)
Pepina Colorada (D)
Pokhipsie (D)
Redder Blood (T)
Shetland Black (T)
Tokyo Rose (T)
I'm primarily looking for fertile pollen superstars this year and will be doing pollen staining on all varieties to make the first selection.
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Post by nathanp on Feb 4, 2016 0:19:48 GMT -5
*sigh* This always seems to happen. My list is growing already.  AKT (Adirondacksen x Kern Toro) T Azule Rose F2 - Blue Fingerling T Black Irish T Barbara T Chaposa T CIP 396286-7 T Igorota T Lumpy Diploid Fingerling D Pirampo D Picasso T Saikai 35 T Skagit Valley Gold D Magic Dragons X x-ajanhuiri Sisu F1 T Magic Dragons X x-ajanhuiri Sisu F2 T Satina T Wharoroa (Mystery Red) T Added to that list: OC-14-3x47x16 OP T OC-14-3x47x16 OP T OC-14-4X46x07 OP T OC-15-5x08x08 OP T OC-15-5x09x10 OP T Papa Cacho T Bountiful T Kennebec T Added some more: Toro Pan T Di-Di-Rus D Bill Tetra Mix T Kennebec "A" T GS 209 (LBR1,8,20,39,40,50) T |
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Post by raymondo on Feb 4, 2016 3:57:55 GMT -5
I'm primarily looking for fertile pollen superstars this year and will be doing pollen staining on all varieties to make the first selection. What do you mean by pollen staining? |
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Post by billw on Feb 4, 2016 13:40:53 GMT -5
You can collect pollen and introduce a stain that is absorbed differently by aborted and viable pollen. You can then determine the percentage of each. I am looking for varieties that produce large quantities of pollen with 80% or better viability. Many potatoes don't produce pollen and many others produce pollen with low viability.
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Post by raymondo on Feb 4, 2016 15:56:13 GMT -5
billw, that brings back memories of 1st year bio classes at university. We used tetrazolium to see if some plant or piece of plant, I forget exactly what now, was living or not. Is that the sort of thing you mean?
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Post by flowerweaver on Feb 6, 2016 18:48:26 GMT -5
I've been kicking myself for the last few days. There was a hard freeze Wednesday night, and unfortunately I left the TPS seedlings outside. My dog had just had emergency surgery, and I was trying to get him settled and comforted that night that I entirely forgot about the plants. The tuber sown TPS from last year's harvest already growing in the field were also killed, but I'm hoping they will come back.
The good news is that two seedlings proved entirely frost tolerant, one Maris Piper and one Plenty Enough. So, my season is off to a bad start. Fortunately I have another window for planting potatoes in August, although I have never done that for lack of field space. Having to rethink the field plans now.
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