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Post by templeton on May 18, 2016 5:48:57 GMT -5
And 7 inches of concrete - that's a serious amount of weight. Could you use concrete pavers for ease of construction? I suppose earth would work as well- ahah! thus the darrenabbey cellar/bunker! I've lost the train of conversation that led to this response. This sounds like something to contain some Xrays... but this sounds more useful for the machine that starbuckwhy is working on than mine. Sorry darrenabbey, it was in one of those links above about how to set up an xray tube, as protection from radiation, lots of concrete instead of lead.
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Post by starbuckwhy on May 20, 2016 1:36:44 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that you could get that concrete thickness down by a lot by building the thing underground and adding atomized metal or something like that to the part that sticks up above the dirt. we have very heavy clay soil wear I am, and soaking it with water (the clay soil) would make it pretty good containment I think. and of course, it would need to be tested with a Geiger counter to make sure it worked.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on May 20, 2016 9:08:50 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that you could get that concrete thickness down by a lot by building the thing underground and adding atomized metal or something like that to the part that sticks up above the dirt. we have very heavy clay soil wear I am, and soaking it with water (the clay soil) would make it pretty good containment I think. and of course, it would need to be tested with a Geiger counter to make sure it worked. not a bad sounding idea. From what i've read many of the designs actually have a hole in one side (like the top or the back) rather than completely contained so that the x-rays escape in a safe direction rather than dangerously bouncing around. I'm not sure what would be better though. I would think if you left it alone for awhile the x-rays would naturally dissipate even if bouncing around in a completely closed system, but i don't know.
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Post by darrenabbey on May 21, 2016 1:41:20 GMT -5
The one X-ray (soft Gamma, really) system I have worked with in the past was a fully enclosed metal monster. Samples were placed into a receptacle, then a foot-thick door rotated over it. Then another door opened on the inside to expose the sample to the radiation source. I was under the impression that the mass of shielding was to absorb the radiation and I've never heard of a system that had a port in the side to let the Xrays escape.
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Post by starbuckwhy on May 22, 2016 2:54:41 GMT -5
yah, that sounds wrong to me too. my understanding is that the shielding absorbs the x-rays, not sure what would make them bounce, but I'm still just starting to learn about this. I know that there are issues with some materials reacting and creating other types of radiation (visible spectrum florescence being the most common example I know of) that's why what types of aggregates you use in the cement are so important. since last reading your posts I read up a bit on aggregates used in nuclear reactors, they seem to use barite heavy aggregate in "heavy cement. there a few good suppliers of construction grade aggregates in my area, I plan to hit a few of them up to see what they know about getting a bag or two of the stuff. I figure I could use barite sands in the lid for the sarcophagus-like structure I plan to make as a casing. afterwards, it should make a good raised garden bed
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Post by steve1 on Aug 4, 2016 5:08:23 GMT -5
starbuckwhy and darrenabbey - I came across a publication by the FAO/ICARDA/ICRISAT which stated they have a free gamma mutation breeding service available. "Any plant breeder can send seeds for gamma ray irradiation to this address. The scientists working there can advise on the dose of gamma rays or apply the dose requested by the breeder. They will also adjust seed moisture content if necessary." in Plant Breeding and Farmer Participation - Methodologies for generating variability. Part 4: Mutation techniques p163 www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1070e/i1070e00.htmFAO/IAEA Agriculture Laboratory, Plant Breeding Unit, A-2444 Seibersdorf, Austria (<Official.Mail@iaea. org>) Hope that helps guys. Cheers Steve
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Post by darrenabbey on Aug 5, 2016 23:15:09 GMT -5
Whoohoo!
I think my experiments will keep moving forward, but this opens up some projects dramatically.
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Post by starbuckwhy on Aug 12, 2016 22:17:12 GMT -5
starbuckwhy and darrenabbey - I came across a publication by the FAO/ICARDA/ICRISAT which stated they have a free gamma mutation breeding service available. "Any plant breeder can send seeds for gamma ray irradiation to this address. The scientists working there can advise on the dose of gamma rays or apply the dose requested by the breeder. They will also adjust seed moisture content if necessary." in Plant Breeding and Farmer Participation - Methodologies for generating variability. Part 4: Mutation techniques p163 www.fao.org/docrep/012/i1070e/i1070e00.htmFAO/IAEA Agriculture Laboratory, Plant Breeding Unit, A-2444 Seibersdorf, Austria (<Official.Mail@iaea. org>) Hope that helps guys. Cheers Steve HOLY CRAP, THAT IS AMAZING!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!i am all over that bro! i am planning on planting a friends yard with potato seed soon, i will be a lot of fun to get some of the seeds irradiated in this way and compare the results with the other forms of mutation. i have also been thinking of collecting a bunch of "foxtail" seeds from around the neighbourhood and mutating them to see if i can get a less sharp less bured variety that would be less likley to hurt pets and then proliferate it and use it to crowd out and eventually supplant the more troublesome breeds that are already established in the city.
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Post by walnuttr on Feb 4, 2017 21:00:40 GMT -5
"not able to replicate the error. Lab notebooks are great for replicating experiments, but they only capture what you thought you were doing. Accidental protocol improvements can take a very long time to isolate."
Aha, the randomness of ionising radiation replicated at laboratory level; In the long run degrading the genome with ionising radiation or erosive chemicals will always lead to an overall loss of some of the basic information contained therein.
Just as "traditional" selective breeding does. just as "natural selection" does.
Yes, some phenotypes will show some desirable features; and may be more productive / profitable for a while, if given special treatment that compensates for the damage to other areas of the genome.
Sure and I enjoy your enthusiasm; just wondering a bit at the assumptions involved which lead to the enthusiasm. Cheers, W
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Post by darrenabbey on Feb 5, 2017 1:59:10 GMT -5
All the radiation/etc. would do is generate genetic diversity within the experimental seeds. Some of that diversity will be useful, some will not. Selection is the part of the process that filters out the bad and prevents what you've described from happening. There are many categories of mutations, most do not result in the "loss of information". Many mutations actually result in an increase in the information content of the impacted genome. Mutation breeding techniques have been in constant use for the last several decades. Essentially every crop you can think of has been improved using such techniques. Some useful links:
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Post by starbuckwhy on Feb 15, 2017 6:18:33 GMT -5
project delayed until next year, due to temporary budget issues (minor home repairs/maintenance) that will not be cleared up until after the window for this year has closed. i may still order the parts some time in april, but then i still wouldn't be doing any tests until this time next year.
i am also considering irradiating budwood before grafting.
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Post by darrenabbey on Feb 16, 2017 2:21:15 GMT -5
My parallel project has experienced delays as well. I'm still putting together a lighted incubator for growing my UV-treated seeds under standardized conditions. It is moving forwards, but slowly.
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Post by philagardener on Feb 23, 2017 21:41:03 GMT -5
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Post by starbuckwhy on Mar 2, 2017 6:24:59 GMT -5
haha, yah, i know the show, a laughed my ass off when they covered the topic,
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Dec 27, 2017 0:49:24 GMT -5
bump
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