Phaseolus vulgaris group wide crosses

[walt]

That link is useful.  Thanks.

[andyb]

steve1, thanks for the link. I hadn't come across that paper, and hadn't heard of those other varieties with partial compatibility. ICA pijao is everywhere in the literature. It seems like almost all newish papers involving P vulgaris / P acutifolius crosses use it.

I should probably request some seed for it and see if I can introgress those compatibility genes into a runner bean and maybe improve my chances on P coccineus x P acutifolius crosses.

[Srdjan Gavrilovic]

Jul 5, 2018 22:16:07 GMT -5 andyb said:

I should probably request some seed for it and see if I can introgress those compatibility genes into a runner bean...

Interested in joining efforts?
I aim at white flowered runner beans to have in the crosses. If you are fine with it, I'm happy to share any successful cross.
Do you know any source of ICA pijao seeds?

Best, Srdjan 

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Andy's Common X Runner hybrids are just starting to flower. Two plants flowered white, so I figured that they were not inter-species crosses, and I culled them. Other plants have scarlet flowers.

[philagardener]

Aug 1, 2018 19:43:11 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

Andy's Common X Runner hybrids are just starting to flower. Two plants flowered white, so I figured that they were not inter-species crosses, and I culled them. Other plants have scarlet flowers.

Nifty!  Do you remember if the white flowered ones corresponded to seedlings with high cotyledons?

[reed]

Mine also have just started blooming real good. Most red flowers, one pink and some white. I didn't know white means they are not crosses. Doesn't really matter that much as there is plenty of room on the trellis so I'm keeping them too.

[andyb]

Thanks for the grow reports!

Ones with red or pink flowers are confirmed crosses, but some other real crosses could have white flowers, depending on the heritage. One of the main runner beans I'm working with has white flowers and I think some of the common beans parents I used do too.

Going forward, I don't expect each plant to set very many pods.

[reed]

The vines are huge, they over topped a ten foot trellis and are hanging back down. The bright flowers swaying in the breeze are very showy, the Ruby Throat hummingbirds are fighting over them. Vines are in afternoon shade so I hope that helps encourage pod development.

[Joseph Lofthouse]

Aug 1, 2018 20:33:48 GMT -5 philagardener said:

Nifty!  Do you remember if the white flowered ones corresponded to seedlings with high cotyledons?

Yes they did.

There is still one of the high-cotyledon plants that hadn't flowered last I checked.

Also of note, is that the plants with cotyledons at soil-level had red-veins in the leaves, while the plants with high-cotyledons had veins the same color as the rest of the leaf. I figured when I first noticed the red-veined leaves, that it might be another indication of successful crosses.

[andyb]

Aug 6, 2018 1:19:46 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

Aug 1, 2018 20:33:48 GMT -5 philagardener said:

Nifty!  Do you remember if the white flowered ones corresponded to seedlings with high cotyledons?

Yes they did.

There is still one of the high-cotyledon plants that hadn't flowered last I checked.

Also of note, is that the plants with cotyledons at soil-level had red-veins in the leaves, while the plants with high-cotyledons had veins the same color as the rest of the leaf. I figured when I first noticed the red-veined leaves, that it might be another indication of successful crosses.

Ah. Glad to hear you took out plants with high cotyledons and white flowers. Red veined leaves sound pretty cool. The next generation, when things start segregating, should be interesting.

Are your plants near enough to any common or runner beans that they might naturally get cross-pollinated? My understanding is that the F1 hybrids have mostly sterile pollen, which is why they produce so few beans. Some pure-blooded pollen might help out and give you better yields.

[reed]

Aug 8, 2018 0:24:34 GMT -5 andyb said:

Aug 6, 2018 1:19:46 GMT -5 Joseph Lofthouse said:

Are your plants near enough to any common or runner beans that they might naturally get cross-pollinated? My understanding is that the F1 hybrids have mostly sterile pollen, which is why they produce so few beans. Some pure-blooded pollen might help out and give you better yields.

That explains what happened to a red flowered vine I found in my common bean patch awhile back. I only got a few seeds cause the original vine was growing on a corn stalk and it fell over on the fence and deer ate most of the plant. Anyway when I planted the ones I did get they grew into giant vines with what seemed like millions of fed flowers but only made a couple dozen seeds. I still have those somewhere, guess I should try to track them down. 

This year there are common beans growing just a few feet from my beans you sent me. Also runners about fifty feet away. So far though, I do not have a large amount of pods forming but all of my beans of all kinds are pretty sparse this year. 

[Joseph Lofthouse]

There is a short row of common beans growing about 20 feet away.

Here's what the red-veined leaves look like:

[imgrimmer]

Wouldn`t it be a good idea to incorporate the outcrossing bean accession to this project? (I just can`t remember where I read about it, someone here might know)

[andyb]

Aug 7, 2018 11:26:20 GMT -5 toomanyirons said:

Minnesota growout of andyb 's seeds.  Trellis is a mix of all the strains given to me.  Some strains are pink flowered some are white flowered.  One pink flowered has reddish vines.

Note the white flower upper right corner.
...
Note white flowers center.
...
This is a pod from a white flower.
...

Thanks for posting these photos! I like to think that this thread could be a resource for other people who think they might have a naturally occurring common x runner cross, and your pictures and everyone else's pictures are great.

It's hard to tell whether the white flowers are from crosses or not. Might be able to tell from a closeup. If you look closely, there's a pair of little green leafy things right at the base of the flower. If I remember right, these are called bracts. On a common bean, these are generally pretty large, wide, and rounded. On a runner bean, they're generally quite small, narrow and pointed. On a cross, they'd presumably be somewhere in between. On the one crossed up plant I have growing right now, it's clearly mid-way between the two. 

That bean pod sure looks like a common bean. Maybe a Homestead bean. Doesn't seem like it's hurting anything, though.

[andyb]

Aug 8, 2018 7:34:23 GMT -5 reed said:

Aug 8, 2018 0:24:34 GMT -5 andyb said:

Are your plants near enough to any common or runner beans that they might naturally get cross-pollinated? My understanding is that the F1 hybrids have mostly sterile pollen, which is why they produce so few beans. Some pure-blooded pollen might help out and give you better yields.

That explains what happened to a red flowered vine I found in my common bean patch awhile back. I only got a few seeds cause the original vine was growing on a corn stalk and it fell over on the fence and deer ate most of the plant. Anyway when I planted the ones I did get they grew into giant vines with what seemed like millions of fed flowers but only made a couple dozen seeds. I still have those somewhere, guess I should try to track them down. 

This year there are common beans growing just a few feet from my beans you sent me. Also runners about fifty feet away. So far though, I do not have a large amount of pods forming but all of my beans of all kinds are pretty sparse this year. 

Next year would be a great year to plant those other beans out, along with whatever you get from these plants.

I doubt there'd be any way to tell if you get a cross with one of your other beans but if you do, then all the better.

My bean crop in the garden this year is miserable, but mostly because I keep picking the flowers off and using them for crosses.

Joseph Lofthouse Cool beans!