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Post by mskrieger on Jan 21, 2019 9:26:23 GMT -5
members.efn.org/~itech/Found a couple of the same opensource instructions in a book on gardening. At the bottom of the page there is a list of root system sizes for various crops. 5.5 feet lateral for tomato by 5 feet deep for the variety John Bauer. This was in 1927. www.seedsavers.org/john-baer-organic-tomatoThat would suggest starting a tomato plant every four steps in a grid (my strides are about 1 yard). Probably say 10 seeds, thinning to one. When I did dry gardening experiments in my sandy loam, I planted tomatoes 4' apart in rows 3' apart, and they grew massively and were very productive. |
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 22, 2019 14:30:43 GMT -5
Hi William, RE:dry farming tomatoes, what sort of experiments are you thinking of? If it's just to compare irrigated versus non-irrigated, you could plant a row of four or five plants of the same variety right next to your dry farmed tomatoes (so same amount of sun, soil, etc.) but simply water them a few gallons/plant with a leaky bucket twice a week. Take a five gallon bucket and make a very small hole in the side right near the bottom. Just big enough so that the water drips out, slowly enough to make a puddle no bigger than a tea cup at the base of the plant. The water will spread out underground.
Because I have sandy soil, I would do two or three gallons/plant twice a week, but if you have more clay you might do better with five gallons once a week. In any case, it's a handy way to put water exactly where you want it (under a specific plant). You can also add a bit of fertilizer (pee, fish extract, etc.) if you're doing this for survival gardening (obviously if you're doing this as a dry gardening trial, the only variable you want is water and so you'd omit fertilizer.) Works well for tomatoes, eggplants, brussels sprouts and other large plants where a little water can mean the difference between a bountiful harvest and nothing.
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 23, 2019 11:06:54 GMT -5
Well, I'm thinking about a lot of things and I don't have answers. For school it might be nice if it were done properly enough to write up as a study. I'm working on a second bachelors to teach science and a small scale study and write up is required unless I can perhaps substitute in a rare plant survey I've done in the past, but that isn't the same type of study. So to do it as a proper experiment I need to think about population size and doing more of a replicated trial. I really have quite a few questions. I would like to confirm that determinates really are worse for dry farming. I suspect some varieties and species are much more capable then others. I suspect some available sites are much better. Ideally I would like two replicates out on my garden land and one at my parents hayfield. Not sure about the site prep. Need to adjust the scale to be possible. Good luck with that, and bravo on aspiring to be a school science teacher! Let us know how you set it up...I'm curious to follow your results. |
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 24, 2019 13:54:31 GMT -5
Mixing up the varieties too much would create a huge headache for you with all the other variables. Make it easy on yourself, and make each row a single variety. Then you have the same variety, irrigated and not, and you can compare them easily.
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 29, 2019 14:47:42 GMT -5
Three plants of each type (in each test plot) will definitely give you a y/n, as well as lots of data on yield variation from variety, soil, etc. I know it doesn't sound like a lot, but if you have four varieties, 3 plants of each, in a test plot, that will be 12 plants worth of information. Also think of the amount of land you'll be working--spacing the plants 3x4, or however you want to for your dry garden purposes, will create an awful long row to hoe, so to speak. I know you want to design the best possible experiment, but never forget the best possible experiment is the one you can do, and not drive yourself crazy or neglect your other responsibilities.  Incidentally, this Washington Post article on climate change effects we're already seeing has a heartbreaking section on Montana. Thought you might find it interesting: www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/gone-in-a-generation/ |
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Post by mskrieger on Jan 31, 2019 14:23:12 GMT -5
Yes, need to consult someone though who has designed something like this to be a publishable experiment. Or find some examples. Definitely would not care if was just for me. Would just need a few plants to satisfy my curiosity. Though if it is possible, and at a fairly dense density, it then is also a breeding experiment for which a large population is useful to find superior individuals. Dry gardening ≠ dense spacing You can do what you want. But if you force the plants to compete in unirrigated conditions, you will not get much yield. (Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, and if so, please disregard.) I for one look forward to hearing what you eventually end up doing and finding out! |
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Post by mskrieger on Apr 4, 2019 13:26:42 GMT -5
Rununculus? Oh I love ranunculus...do you grow them in pots? I've never tried it. I should. They're so spendy at the florist's...
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Post by steev on May 10, 2019 23:50:50 GMT -5
I sorta think I'd like a broadfork just because I like the idea of low-tech manual labor, but I have other concerns right now.
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Post by mskrieger on Aug 5, 2019 15:51:56 GMT -5
Glad to hear your dry-farming tomato experiment is going well! I know exactly what you mean about watering tomatoes. Cowpeas are similarly productive dry gardened.
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Post by steev on Aug 8, 2019 22:36:40 GMT -5
Somehow I doubt that the problem is drainage (sand); more likely lack is of organic matter, which would hold water.
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Post by mskrieger on Aug 22, 2019 9:01:20 GMT -5
Congratulations on your tomatoes! But man, mid-August is a long time to wait. Is it a heat thing?
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 5, 2019 9:07:18 GMT -5
Does the drying tendril reliably tell you your watermelons are ripe?
I'm still waiting on my muskmelons...they generally change color and give off an enticing aroma when ripe. Much more flirty than watermelons!
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Post by steev on Sept 7, 2019 4:25:07 GMT -5
The only bad thing with your kid is that he'll be stuck with the gardening bug for life; that's how I got infected by my grandad; as the twig is bent, as they say.
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Post by mskrieger on Sept 26, 2019 7:53:50 GMT -5
Hi william, sounded from the weather thread that you harvested this weekend, but my advice would be: tomatoes don't develop good flavor at those temperatures, so by all means bring them inside and let the greens ripen on the vine indoors where it's warmer. Squash might still be growing sllloooowwwwwllllyyyy at those temps if the soil is still warm. And obviously cool weather greens and roots will be happy. Dig potatoes if your root celler is cold enough (digging potatoes in October is miserable. The CEO of a corporation I used to work for told me once that growing up in Scotland, all the highschool students got two weeks vacation in October to dig the potato crop in the freezing rain. His Worst Job Ever, he called it.  ). |
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Post by steev on Oct 14, 2019 20:31:02 GMT -5
William: Re-read your earlier post re: double-digging; if you do it well once and get the clay layer integrated with topsoil and organic matter, it should be pretty much a permanent improvement, the only ongoing work being to add organic matter to the upper layer whenever possible; if you just break up the clay, it'll re-meld; hence the necessity of repeating the double-digging; better to do it well, piecemeal, as time permits, once and for all. It's better to work your butt off earlier than to put it off 'til later; trust me; I've learned the hard way; I have less butt to work off in my "Golden Years"; in my case "retired" just means "tired again".
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).