My first attempt at aquaponics

[oldmobie]

This first post is a duplicate of what I posted on the "Aquaponics anyone?" thread. I'm moving to here, now, so I don't clutter up a thread that isn't mine. Here goes:

I finally started aquaponics today.



I used sand left over from a project. Constant flood, so I don't have to figure out bell siphons. Later I might switch to ebb and flow by putting the pump on a timer.

Guess I should have rinsed the sand. It made the water murky and foamy. The sand must be filtering it back out, it's getting better.

A clay pot of aquarium gravel minimizes sand erosion where the water enters the grow bed.



The water flows over the sand faster than through it. Seemed determined to carve itself a channel, so I formed it one around three sides to the stand pipe. Hopefully that will maximize the sand's filtration. More gravel in a bucket around the stand pipe lets any moving sand settle out rather than suck into the lower tank. The bottom of a jar is over the stand pipe to prevent clogging with leaves and such. It kept stopping the flow by trapping air. The water wouldn't displace it to reach the top of the stand pipe, so the level just rose instead. When I placed a jar of water over it, a siphon formed and sucked sand and gravel through. Now the jar has notches cut to let water flow under, and a small hole in the top to let air in and out.



I was having a problem with water flowing over one side. The ground isn't level, and how I cut the tote probably isn't either. I should have shortened the stand pipe, dropping the water level. Instead, I shimmed the grow bed up. (Uncle Red always said "Any tool can be the right tool.")



I don't want to disturb the bucket of gravel to remove the stand pipe and cut it off. I've already planted.

So far, a strawberry offshoot, some houseplant cuttings and various seeds, including corn, tomato, squash, turnip, beans, cucumber. Also a potato and a few onions and a flower bulb. Low expectations, but I want to know what plants will grow there, and whether direct sowing will work with the constant moisture.

[oldmobie]

Here's a picture of the channel that directs the main flow of water around three sides of the grow bed. You can also see more of what's planted: three house plant cuttings, maybe the potato and onions if you look close. And the glad bulbs farther back. Too soon to know if any seeds will come up, of course.



Enough water seems to run through the sand to filter it. The water is clearing.

Before:


After:


Next on the agenda is raising up the grow bed and putting landscape timbers under the cage edge to take pressure off the plastic. I don't think it'll break, but it's warping.



After that, feeder goldfish.

[reed]

Interesting experiment, look forward to updates on your progress. Blue gills adapted very well to my little artificial pond and you can eat em. They're great if you have a source to to get some. Mine actually bred themselves from a 1/2 dozen small ones I brought home from the lake. Stay away from koi, they grow way too fast, well I don't know, that might be OK as I guess you could also eat them. I'v had all the above and they all will reproduce on their own. Koi and goldfish will cross.

[oldmobie]

I put in ten feeder goldfish yesterday. One died and is now buried in the grow bed. (Producing fertilizer one way or another.) I can only count eight. Until I find a body, I assume nine are alive, and just moving too much for me to count accurately.



The water has cleared a little more. This may be about all that plain sand can do. Hopefully as plants grow, the roots will also work as a filter. Plan B involves the stand pipe. It's 1½" PVC, with a male adapter going through the bottom of the grow bed, threads down. All I had to lock it in with was a nut like the ones on drain traps. So when water returning from the grow bed splashed outside the tote, I added a drain trap pigtail with a ferrule, extended below the water surface in the tote. If I need more filtration, I'll probably add a trap, filled with activated carbon.

The clearer water lets me see that bubbles come out of the bottom of the stand pipe. I was afraid there wasn't that much agitation. Aeration: check.



Looks as though the onions don't mind the moisture.



So I added garlic. Then I thought maybe carrots would like the loose soil...







I think I might incorporate this stock tank into the system sometime. The sheep and goats could drink cleaner water, and that stuff in the tank could be fertilizer.



She hasn't admitted it yet, but I think Mrs oldmobie is enjoying this project too.

[oldmobie]

Down to eight. On the plus side, seeds are germinating. Looks like mostly turnips so far. A little corn, and something else I haven't identified yet.

[aufin]

While everything looks good now, I think in a relatively short time you'll see things starting to go bad. You're trying to mix at least 2 types of aquaponics that aren't very compatible: flood and drain and constant flow. The F/D style water level's constant rising and falling aerates the roots to keep the plant from drowning. Yeah, yeah, what about constant flow. The constant flow of water in those type systems is filtered and oxygenated. The filtration, so the roots don't get covered with yuk and suffocate, and the airstones so the water has oxygen for the roots. In your system, the roots will be sitting in water that will become stagnant over time with all the solids the sand will be filtering out of the water. The sand will act as a filter, but with the trapped solids just sitting in water with no place to go, everything will just rot and poison your bed.
In F/D, the siphon empties the growbed of nearly all the water, not just a standpipe for overflow.

My suggestion would be to get a timer for your pump and run it only a few minutes every hour or so. Along with putting the pump on a timer, you should have a drain at the bottom of your bed so the water drains completely. And, you're right.......you should have rinsed the sand. That dust is not good for anything. It's probably too late to check the sand for anything with limestone or calcium. As to the stock tank, I've read where anything galvanized is not good for fish.

Looks as though what you have is a modified iAVs setup. Research iAVs and other aquaponics systems so you can avoid a lot of problems. I had a F/D system for a couple years. Worked great for a while......till it didn't. The gravel eventually collected so much crap in the bottom that the beds became anaerobic. Only a lot of filtration and/or constant cleaning of the beds was the answer. I switched to iAVs a couple years ago and haven't looked back. You're on the right track for iAVs, which is the most simple system of A/P going, but do your research before you run into problems and get discouraged.

[prairiegardens]

I've seen systems set up to drain the bottom of the fish tank from time to time to clear excess sludge out of the system. Fish can produce a lot as those horrible murky fish tanks in roadside restaurants demonstrate, the fishy version of living in 19th century London smog. Getting the balance right between nutrient production and use appears to be one of the major headaches in aquaponics, not insurmountable but something to be aware of. That shouldn't be a major issue if you decide to do that, totes have a convenient valve. (I'm a tad envious about that tote, people want $200 for slightly iffy used ones here). That could also clear the dust from the sand out but might be a bit of a struggle keeping the fish from leaving too, unless you had some sort of fibreglass screen you could put in temporarily above the level of the valve.

A couple of years back someone by the name of Murray was offering a course in aquaponics and he had a bunch of teaser videos. They were all interesting, a couple were very impressive. They ranged from small home systems in North America to monster sized commercial ones in China.  In one, he had a very ingenious filtering system using something -trying to remember exactly!- that could simply be replaced with the used one going out to be buried in the garden. It was something very simple like quilt batting, though I don't think that's actually what it was, but it was common, easily found and cheap. And would stand up in the system for a while yet still break down in the soil.

I wished I could've afforded the series, had to settle for watching the teaser videos several times, memory is not cooperating in bringing back the details now. Perhaps the teaser videos are on You Tube somewhere, I'll try to find them.

Seems that fish can deal with a whole lot less than optimum conditions as long as the water is well oxygenated, plants too, since some live in a continuous stream of it. Someone here is marketing small packs of live assorted  lettuce, complete with roots, ready to make into a nice mixed side salad, the roots are a clear indicator they've been raised in water. Doesn't necessarily mean aquaponics though.

[oldmobie]

Found another dead fish last night, and one this morning. Now there are six. Went and got our old aquarium stuff out of storage. Tested the water; nitrate and nitrite are both crazy high. Still cycling. Hopefully it'll level out soon. If not, maybe the next residents will be more resilient. I think I saw a dozen or so crawdads out there with a real estate agent.

I found an old timer. It's flood and drain now. Not the ideal timer according to the iAVs website; they suggest eight cycles a day, for a total of two hours. My timer has forty-eight tabs on it, should mean ½ hour each. Off for 2½ hours, on for ½ hour. Eight cycles a day times ½ hour equals four hours.




I emptied the gravel from the bucket around the standpipe, pulled the standpipe out and drilled a hole at the bottom so it could drain.





So then it needed aeration for when the (water) pump isn't running. I'd bought a small air pump last night to try to make an airlift pump for the stock tank. Too small. So now it's running an air stone in the IBC tote. The timer and air pump are both indoor only, so I built 'em a little house.

[oldmobie]

My wife said she's gonna paint my little electrical house to look like a pig. Who looks at this...



and sees this?



Seriously, her best idea is a pig?

[aufin]

Aug 16, 2017 12:40:57 GMT -5 prairiegardens said:

I've seen systems set up to drain the bottom of the fish tank from time to time to clear excess sludge out of the system. Fish can produce a lot as those horrible murky fish tanks in roadside restaurants demonstrate, the fishy version of living in 19th century London smog.  That's why in AP we pump from the bottom of the fish tank.  The muck is what we want.  Getting the balance right between nutrient production and use appears to be one of the major headaches in aquaponics, not insurmountable but something to be aware of. Right, AP isn't rocket science, instead it's a bit of a balancing act, but in my limited experience I've found the "balance" has quite a bit of flexibility. That shouldn't be a major issue if you decide to do that, totes have a convenient valve. (I'm a tad envious about that tote, people want $200 for slightly iffy used ones here). If you really want to give AP a shot, you don't need an IBC.  You can use blue barrels or build your own growbed(s). Fish tank doesn't need to be much more than a hole in the ground with a liner.  That could also clear the dust from the sand out but might be a bit of a struggle keeping the fish from leaving too, unless you had some sort of fibreglass screen you could put in temporarily above the level of the valve.

A couple of years back someone by the name of Murray was offering a course in aquaponics and he had a bunch of teaser videos. They were all interesting, a couple were very impressive. They ranged from small home systems in North America to monster sized commercial ones in China.  In one, he had a very ingenious filtering system using something -trying to remember exactly!- that could simply be replaced with the used one going out to be buried in the garden. It was something very simple like quilt batting, though I don't think that's actually what it was, but it was common, easily found and cheap. And would stand up in the system for a while yet still break down in the soil.

I wished I could've afforded the series, had to settle for watching the teaser videos several times, memory is not cooperating in bringing back the details now. Perhaps the teaser videos are on You Tube somewhere, I'll try to find them.  You don't need to spend a lot of money, just poke around on some of the forums dedicated to aquaponics.  You'll learn just as much if not more......for free.  You'll find there are complicated AP systems with lots of timers, sensors, filters, biodigesters, and things you have to monitor such as water ph and nutrient levels, and you will find simple, easy systems (like mine) that run on "cruise control".  Don't get me wrong.....I do look at my system as often as I can, but with my system the filtration issue is taken care of with the sand, the ph level is pretty much self regulating as long as there are plants growing, and the nutrient situation is handled with the fish waste and other assorted solids that find their way into the fish water which are filtered by the sand and left on the surface to decay and feed the plants.  I'm sure I've oversimplified, but that's AP in a much abbreviated nutshell.  Everyone's situation is going to be a little different and require different tweaks.

Seems that fish can deal with a whole lot less than optimum conditions as long as the water is well oxygenated, plants too, since some live in a continuous stream of it. Someone here is marketing small packs of live assorted  lettuce, complete with roots, ready to make into a nice mixed side salad, the roots are a clear indicator they've been raised in water. Doesn't necessarily mean aquaponics though.

[reed]

Hey, oldmobie , I made the other aquaponics thread and I would be happy to hear and see your stuff there but since you made new one I hope you won't mind too much if I intrude on your's.  Maybe if we get more people interested we can merge them or just use one or the other. Or you can kick me out of your's if you want. 

I think aufin is right, it don't have to be fancy or pricey it just has to be balanced, or reasonably so. Here is my little pond. It's hard to see the water but it is in there. In front there is a 190 gallon cheapo garden pond from wallmart. It is 30 inches deep at the deepest. Above it and running past the woman's pet pink flamingo is a little stream about 7 feet long and 1 - 6 inches deep. At the top is a little waterfall you can't really see in the picture, it's about 10 inches high. The pump of course is in the deepest part of the pond. Half a dozen 3 -4 inch bluegills and a bigger gray colored fish live in the pond as do lots of frogs. Every spring toads breed in it in abundance, they are damn loud! 

Hardy waterlilies grow there in the pond part and wild mint and that horse tail stuff grow among the rocks up by the waterfall.  I have grown lots of stuff in the shallow stream part. Sometimes I just stick a plant in there and sometimes I plant it in a pot in clean river gravel and sit it so the drain holes are in the water. 

There is no filtration of any kind except some plastic screen around the pump to keep the big stuff. I clean out leaves and debris once a year in the spring. I do it in the spring cause the frogs need something to bury themselves in in the winter, pump runs year round and keeps water moving even if completely covered in ice and snow. That's the dining room window there to the right, I usually keep the waterfall clear of ice so we can watch the birds bathe and drink in the winter. 

Water is always crystal clear except for about a week each spring when it turns pea green. I think accumulated fish poo from winter feed an explosion of algae when it warms up. as soon as the algae eats it up and or the other plants take off and or I clean it it goes back to clear.

It has been here for about 10 years. The Bluegills breed  so once in a while I have to evict some. 



I have plans in my little brain to build a much much bigger one, big enough to swim in and raise a little fish and frogs to eat but I don't want it dependent on grid supplied electric. I'v been looking into either wind or solar or a combination but haven't found a good alternative yet, at least that I can afford.

[add] My plans for the bigger one is a an 8' x 20' section with 4' x 20' of it being 3.5' to 4' deep and the other half sloping from 1' foot or so down to the deeper part. Above it a for lack of a better term will be a "flowing marsh" 15' x 20 feet but irregularly shaped to appear more natural, and roughly ranging from maybe 2 to 6 inches. In it will live all the hardy full time resident plants except the water lilies and any gravel potted plants I want to plant  seasonally.

[add again] Here is  winter view of the waterfall taken from the dining table.

[oldmobie]

I'd like to re-plumb my setup a little to let my pump always run and aerate and circulate water, while still staying flood and drain. I'm having trouble sourcing one component.




I think I should put a tee in the pump line, with one path providing less resistance than the other. Send the easy path right back to the tank, with solenoid controlled valve on a timer. (The blue area in the picture.) The valve should close for fifteen minutes every three hours, causing the water to go into the grow bed.

I'm having a hard time finding a cheap valve and timer that will open wide enough, close tightly, even with low pressure and be easy enough for me to install. Anyone know of one like that?

[aufin]

You're just adding an unnecessary point of possible failure with the timed valve. With what you will be pumping there will be build up inside the pipe walls and on the valve gate. No need to complicate things. A simple inexpensive air pump and airstone should do just fine if you're concerned about aeration.

[oldmobie]

Aug 17, 2017 18:02:51 GMT -5 aufin said:

A simple inexpensive air pump and airstone should do just fine if you're concerned about aeration.

I already have an air pump and air stone in place, so if you're right I'm all set. I'll have to watch and see if the water clears again. It got kinda murky after I dug out the stand pipe. That'll be great if I don't need to spend any more.

[aufin]

You'll be fine. You're overthinking this simple easy system and making things way more complicated than needed. I'd show you my setup but don't know how to add photos......yet. I'm running one 4x8 ft bed, two 2x8 ft beds with 2 pumps and one timer. The main pump is on the timer, the cheesy little pump for circulation runs 24/7. I have approx. 300 gal of water with 25-30 tilapia. Everything's on autopilot. In the morning I walk around with my coffee, feed the fish, maybe pull a weed or two. The pump runs 10 minutes every 2 hours - 7,9,11,1,3,5,7. Nothing at night. In the evening, feed the fish and add water that was lost due to evaporation, transpiration.
Relax. Let your system settle down and cycle a few days before adding any fish. Yeah, yeah......I don't have much patience, either, but some things just can't be rushed.