|
|
Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 29, 2017 2:07:44 GMT -5
I think a lot of folks join because there is fairly unique information here at HG, I know I was initially attracted way back in 2011 (I think) by some really interesting stuff mybighair was posting on perrenial brassica breeding. And I was quite active for a number of years, and I've fallen away big time. Partly because Facebook hooked me (and many others) away. It is astonishing to be in a Facebook Group and be a part of a seed train with insane numbers of people on it. The germplasm I've received from the Kenosha Potato Project has CHANGED MY LIFE. One thing the internet has shown me is that far more people are interested in saving seeds and sharing them than are interested in joining an organization like Seed Savers Exchange and dealing with all the hassle entailed, or being a member of a forum like this and crafting a complex post with hyperlinks and inserted multiple photos from a photo host etc. The big thing ecosystems like FB and Instagram have is they are designed to make sharing your fluffy quick thoughts EASILY. Posting on a Proboards forum is a PITA by comparison. I don't know if a more updated version of this forum might be different but another BIG problem with HG is that the Alan Bishop has abandoned the thing. So we are left with a forum structure he created almost a decade ago and has never updated and a tiny cadre of remaining moderators (2 or 3?) who have limited capabilities. I know of no other forum out there that is marketed as a plant breeding forum specifically than this one. Nor one that has such a high rate of unique information. I also like the fact that it is quite world wide. I like when the Australians post and the Canadians, and the Europeans, and those from the UK, etc. Makes for quite a diverse set of individuals and a unique seed sharing network. I'm not a big user of Facebook myself and don't see myself becoming that involved in Facebook seed groups etc all that much. But it is cool to hear that they can be useful for sharing and spreading of information easily and quickly. I may join more plant groups on facebook over time, but i generally like to be a passive invisible user on facebook. I also never liked the Seed Savers Exchange idea not only because of the catalog membership crap but also the bureaucratic bullsh** that cropped up (*stands temporarily on soapbox* and then steps back down). I noticed they too closed down their forum recently. Maybe the seed savers exchange network can be a guide to seeing an outdated method of communication and involvement fade away. I personally like the Forum method of communication as it is easier for me to articulate all of my ideas easier (also without sharing it on facebook if i wish to do so), but also longer posts like Rowan has mentioned. Perhaps there is a good way to bridge the gap between the two mediums. The mentioning that Alan Bishop has abandoned this forum is a big problem as mentioned. Also who knows how stable ProBoards is and whether proboards will just dissapear someday. Not to mention the problem of limited Moderators because Alan abandoned it taking full administrative keys with him. Joseph Lofthouse recently contacted me about ideas about starting a plant breeding specific forum under OSSI. I guess OSSI is interested in this and is willing to pay for it and make sure it remains for a very long time. I told him i really really really liked that idea. But i also mentioned that perhaps it could be so much more than that. I suggested tacking on a wiki where those who have extensive plant breeding knowledge or those who want to compile a central hub of information into one place could do so. The wiki format is hugely popular with other DIY and open source or community groups and i think could complement a forum quite well. Another idea i had was to incorporate a wordpress blog into it as well. Certain guest posts could be posted on breeding projects or plant breeding news, or OSSI information, etc. Since Facebook communication is a huge part of this discussion now i think the incorporation of the wordpress blog could help foster the link to help merge the ease of Facebook and the use of a forum. I am testing this now on my old/new website i am in the process of resurrecting. The wordpress theme i am using has a modern facebook, twitter, pintrist, google groups, share button built in to each post. I just tested this feature by sharing a test post with Joseph on facebook. I think it worked quite well. Perhaps something like this could be implemented where the bulk of information could be hosted in a Forum/Wiki/Blog but could easily be shared to facebook or facebook discussions or plant groups on there to gain instant attention and instant sharing. Thoughts? What do you all think? EDIT: p.s. it sounds like part of the problem is that this particular forum software is old outdated and not modern enough for the times. I am on a few other forums that are very new and they are slick as a whistle. So perhaps not being a modern forum with various tools, etc, is part of the problem. There are quite a few people on those forums. I will try taking a look to see what forum stuff they use. These are open source DIY hackers so i imagine the forum software they use is open source. I think they might even also have a wiki built in. Will have to check on that. and the photo uploading issue is apparently still a problem. |
|
|
|
Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 29, 2017 2:33:41 GMT -5
EDIT: p.s. it sounds like part of the problem is that this particular forum software is old outdated and not modern enough for the times. I am on a few other forums that are very new and they are slick as a whistle. So perhaps not being a modern forum with various tools, etc, is part of the problem. There are quite a few people on those forums. I will try taking a look to see what forum stuff they use. These are open source DIY hackers so i imagine the forum software they use is open source. I think they might even also have a wiki built in. Will have to check on that. and the photo uploading issue is apparently still a problem. Two of the forums i was thinking of are these two: forum.openag.media.mit.edu/discourse.openbiomedical.org/They both have the same look so i imagine they are using the same basic forum software. Looks pretty modern and slick to me. Certainly easy on the eyes compared to some older style forum software out there. If another forum under OSSI is formed my vote is for something like these. Plus the wiki and blog if possible added on. I will look for a good wiki example if i can find one (obviously wikipedia is the original wiki). Don't know what software they are using yet, maybe i will inquire to someone about it. Edit2: Apparently the two forums mentioned above are using Discourse. And yes, it is open source. www.discourse.org/edit3: p.s. the use of more modern forum software and wordpress (not sure about the wiki) would also be compatible with mobile devices like phones and tablets. That would go a long way in helping people stay interested in a forum. Plus the bonus Social media sharing buttons built in for those who like to use those things to help reach a wider audience and bring them back to the forum.  |
|
|
|
Post by reed on Nov 29, 2017 6:51:15 GMT -5
I don't have much experience with FB but on the surface it just looks like an endless string of mostly crap. Stuff just piles up in a chronological order with no way I see to find anything interesting, all you can do is just keep scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. Maybe if I took the time to make an account and really check it out, but I don't plan to do that. I'm also not much of a follower.
Except for the picture issue I love this forum. It is one of very few such things I'm part of and the only one I check regularly. When I first got sick of the stupid "keep the heirlooms pure" crap and started researching better ways, this forum is where I ended up.
|
|
|
|
Post by steev on Nov 29, 2017 7:11:16 GMT -5
I have no interest whatsoever in FB or any such; I barely have any interest in the internet.
|
|
|
|
Post by ferdzy on Nov 29, 2017 11:06:50 GMT -5
I have no interest whatsoever in FB or any such; I barely have any interest in the internet. I'm on the internet all day and all night but I still have no interest whatsoever in FB. Quite apart from the fact that I hate the constant bombardment with irrelevant stuff (from what I can tell from over my mother's shoulder), it has a very bad, in fact terrible, reputation on the privacy front. No facebook for me. |
|
|
|
Post by oxbowfarm on Nov 29, 2017 12:32:48 GMT -5
I don't want to give the impression that I'm defending facebook, or social media. I've largely abandoned FB, I determined it was impacting my mental health negatively. To my mind, the only relatively positive and useful part of fb are the groups. The other nice thing is that the software makes things like linking and posting pictures the matter of a couple of clicks or swipes, posting photos on HG has actually gotten MORE difficult over time in my experience. Likewise adding hyperlinks etc. The fact that HG is the only place where serious amateur plant breeders congregate online is more a matter of chance than design as far as I can tell, this forum originated when Alan Bishop got banned from Baker Creek's old forum. I think a dedicated new forum with better architecture/software that isn't completely vulnerable to the whims of Proboards and hasn't been abandoned by its administrator sounds like an awesome idea. There was actually a really interesting discussion about what a different, better, open-source version of HG might look like back in this thread. Then Alan swooped in for the first time in 2 years (also his very last post to date, over 2 years ago) and the discussion ended. The idea that he is ever coming back or transferring admin duties to someone else is pretty unrealistic IMO, he's been dark for 4 years barring one login. Of course it actually requires all the relevant people to come along and make a new forum worth posting on. There are lots of interesting people that have at least touched down here at HG that could make another forum very interesting. Carol Deppe and Alan Kapuler both spring to mind without much mental effort. I'd love to see some pros add in their knowledge and experience, I've found Michael Mazourek and Walter De Jong both to be incredibly open with advice and additional resources when I've met them, (both being local to me at Cornell). Brent Loy at UNH is also a super nice guy and very willing to give knowledge etc. Most of their actually breeding work is tied up by University intelletual property BS, but every professional plant breeder I've ever met has been willing to talk your ear off about their favorite species. |
|
|
|
Post by walt on Nov 29, 2017 15:31:54 GMT -5
This thread is bringing up some good ideas. I hope it leads to something.
For myself, my favorite forum used to be a citrus forum. It had a huge amount of information on breeding, experience with different varieties in different areas, indoor and outdoor culture, and on and on. But then it got so it was hard to use because spam would take over the screen every time you hit "next page". Then it got even worse. I suppose that is one reason it isn't up any more.
I read on that forum that someone, or rather a group of members had downloaded the whole thing and saved it on discs. I wish I had a copy of that. I wonder if this forum is backed up on discs, just in case. It has information that is very valuable.
As for facebook. I am on a family group there, and it is very good for keeping up to date on grand-nieces and grand-nephews that I don't see for years at a time.
I'm also on a passifloora group and some iris groups. The passiflora group has new pictures of passiflora flowers and fruit, mostly flowers. Sometimes there is a passiflora flower that takes my breath away. But not often. Seldom a discussion. Never a discussion that is more than a few posts.
One iris group has deep discussions on breeding, genetics, culture, species, and more, including members who really are experts, both professional and amature.
Most iris groups are like the passiflora group. As someone else has said here, facebook really isn't set up for deep discussions or looking up past discussions. Or possibly I don't know how to use it.
Forum? This one is my favorite. Then there is a new, to me, citrus forum which I learned about from Imgrimmer. Kitchen tissue culture group is good if you are into that. Species Iris Group of North America, which is actually world-wide is good for me. There used to be a bonsai group I loved, but it disapeared one day. Most of that group came up on a different group over the next year or two.
That is a big problem with these forums. When they go down, I have found no way to get in touch again with most of the people on them. And I don't know how to back them up. Lots of informatoin can be lost for no good reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by rowan on Nov 30, 2017 0:55:30 GMT -5
Ok, I might regret spending a years worth of hosting if it is all talk and no-one actually wants it, but... I have started a new forum for amateur breeders. You can find it here: 192.145.233.47/~foodga6/ but the domain will be www.foodgardenproject.com when the DNS propagates, hopefully within another 24 hours. Check it out, make an account and make some posts. it will still need a bit of tweaking but I think it is a good start. If people actually want to join this new forum then I will need a couple more moderators so we don't get the situation that has happened here again. And yes, you can directly post images. |
|
|
|
Post by richardw on Nov 30, 2017 3:15:28 GMT -5
I would put my hand up as Moderator rowan. Is it too early to make an account yet, tried to with no luck. Once we can get underway over in the new forum its a matter of C&P information over, the important threads.The more that can be transferred over the better.
|
|
|
|
Post by rowan on Nov 30, 2017 3:38:31 GMT -5
Ok, thanks I will try to find out why you couldn't sign up for an account. What sort of message did you get? I might have to get some help for more knowledgeable people on how to move info over.
|
|
|
|
Post by rowan on Nov 30, 2017 3:47:00 GMT -5
Ok, I see that there is a problem when I also try to sign in with a new account. I will try to find out where the problem is.
|
|
|
|
Post by templeton on Nov 30, 2017 4:28:07 GMT -5
Rowan,
had a very quick peek.
Good that you didn't procrastinate too much...but i think keen had some nice suggestions. The OSSI idea is nice, as long as the freedom to post material that might be a bit edgy is still available. Keen, I'm interested in looking into new forum software, i wonder if i can migrate my aussie forum to somethin newer? probably dont have the available mental energy at the moment, tho.
too tired to contribute at the moment, spent all day organising for a huge rain event that is forecast. All day up a ladder, im knackered.
T
|
|
|
|
Post by richardw on Nov 30, 2017 12:14:26 GMT -5
Ok, thanks I will try to find out why you couldn't sign up for an account. What sort of message did you get? I might have to get some help for more knowledgeable people on how to move info over. I got a massage that -your is address shows are have been block because of spam, or close to that |
|
|
|
Post by rowan on Nov 30, 2017 13:08:46 GMT -5
The fix seems to involve a lot of technical gobbledygook so I am going to test another forum platform.
|
|
|
|
Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Nov 30, 2017 14:28:51 GMT -5
Rowan, cool that you are quick to test something.
But yes, i too want to see what the OSSI organization comes up with.
|
|
