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Post by rowan on Dec 4, 2017 16:00:54 GMT -5
Damn it, I am not tech minded when it comes to this sort of thing. I can't find anything that is causing these problems. Maybe this is not something I am meant to do.
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Post by farmermike on Dec 4, 2017 20:55:14 GMT -5
I had no problem registering with the same info I use on HG. The forum looks good rowan. The only thing I feel is missing is a section for homesteading projects (for things like landrace chicken breeding threads, etc...). The most important thing is that the community of plant breeders is maintained. Though I guess if a forum is geared towards breeding, that community may develop naturally. I also wonder if some of the most valuable and informative threads on HG (like: Understanding Corn Genetics) could just be copied & pasted into a thread on a new forum. Might be a lot of work to do that with lots of threads, but if it was just a chosen few it might be doable. |
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Post by richardw on Dec 4, 2017 23:27:46 GMT -5
I think step one should be - Joseph Lofthouse get onto Alan and change over administrative responsibilities to who ever, that would be the most straight forward and simple, no having to shift over truck loads of all our years of accumulated information to somewhere else, i know loading photos onto here is not easy but you can use storage sites like vgy.me/ which is bloody fantastic. If thats no luck try step two... |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Dec 5, 2017 7:04:15 GMT -5
I think the odds of Alan Bishop returning to fix the issues with this forum, or to hand over the admin keys to Joseph or anyone are extremely low. He was already approached two years ago about this exact thing. Its not like he's dead, there are many members here who are friends with him on fb, where he is quite active. I'm not particularly interested in a carbon copy of this forum such as what it looks like rowan has built, no offense. The interesting thing about HG is that it developed organically into the hangout on the web for generalist amateur plant breeders. I'd be interested in a forum that focussed on THAT interest more deliberately. The sub-forum categories we have here are not really reflected in who we are as a community, they just represent the stuff Alan was into when he constructed the forum. I do a lot of homesteading, but I'd gladly drop all the homesteading and general gardening stuff in favor of more topics on genetics, tissue culture, biology, microscopy, etc. There's all kinds of places on the web to get homesteading stuff, and basic gardening to permaculture type stuff. If we are going to be the amateur plant breeder/plant science hub, lets be that. Alans old template isn't a great fit for that IMO. I hope Joseph Lofthouse will chime in here at some point about the OSSI thing. I think a science/breeding oriented forum hosted by OSSI would be a great place to congregate AND to attract more folks than just the traditional HG folks. My 2ยข. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 5, 2017 12:00:38 GMT -5
OSSI approached me, saying that they are exploring the idea of making a plant breeding forum, and asked if I would help them explore that idea and make recommendations to them about what features and policies is should have.
I immediately suggested an endowment that would continue to fund the forum even if OSSI goes bust. Longevity of a plant breeding forum is important to me. People have put a tremendous amount of effort into the posts, and to the projects written about. I hate it when forums disappear and the data is essentially deleted. It's like deleting an encyclopedia. The seed savers exchange is an example of how wrong things can go with forums. Lacking a long-term commitment to support the forum might be overcome by licensing the content via some sort of Open Source collaborative copyright, such as Creative Commons. And by making the forum easily downloadable. I suspect that just about everyone that participates in a forum like that would be glad to have their writings copied and hosted elsewhere. People have been plagiarizing my writing since 1994. I feel flattered every time. It's not like I have any expectation to make money from writing.
It seems like another obvious requirement for a forum is photo hosting. The Photobucket fiasco is waiting to happen all over again if a site doesn't host it's own photos. That significantly increases resources required to host/serve the forum, but disk space and bandwidth are relatively cheap these days. Not something that I can afford any more but many people can.
My preference would also be to keep it a pure plant breeding forum: No politics, religion, etc. And to use real names on posts. Sure makes moderation easier.
I think that a forum should have widely distributed leadership. In other words, that anyone that is an active participant and plays nice should have some degree or other of moderation capabilities. I'm looking at forum software that auto-deletes posts if several regular users mark it as spam. No moderator intervention required. Proboards does a wonderful job managing security and limiting spam. Self operated forums have to provide that service themselves. I've been hosting forums since 1994. Spam is a never-ending problem. I really enjoy forums that have some sort of gaming system built into them. In other words a built in reputation system. If I see a post that I really enjoy, I like to be able to give it a thumbs-up. I like getting acknowledged. That can also go a long way towards helping with moderation, for example deleting spam via consensus.
Since OSSI is all about Open Source seeds, the software that runs the forum should also be open source. Since about 50% of users are reading forums with mobile devices, the forum software should dynamically sense that and display content appropriately. That's a pretty common feature of forum software these days.
I don't know what to recommend regarding fluff... All the side-conversations that help build camaraderie and let us get to know each other. For example, yesterday, I tore a calf muscles while running, so I'm unlikely to be able to run for about 6 weeks. The OSSI has a lot of academics on it. I don't know what sort of dynamic that might create.
And why does OSSI want a forum in the first place? What do they hope to get out of it?
I personally really dislike posting anything to facebook that has any enduring value. Because I can't find posts later to add an update to them. It's great for planning a trip, or a seed swap. Sucks as a repository of knowledge. I think that's the benefit for me of forums. I'm still making regular updates to posts that I started years ago.
I have never liked polls on forums, but I wonder if there would be some value in a rating system for varieties?
This forum is my home on the web. I've read nearly every post made here since I joined about 8 years ago. It works well for me, as it is. Maybe, I should recommend that OSSI join us here.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Dec 5, 2017 13:20:00 GMT -5
I'm not particularly interested in a carbon copy of this forum such as what it looks like rowan has built, no offense. In favor of more topics on genetics, tissue culture, biology, microscopy, etc. There's all kinds of places on the web to get homesteading stuff, and basic gardening to permaculture type stuff. If we are going to be the amateur plant breeder/plant science hub, lets be that. Alans old template isn't a great fit for that IMO. Ditto. +1. Love it. I too am highly interested in more science stuff genetics, tissue culture, biology, microscopy, etc. I've gotten quite a bit of my genetics fix here which is one reason i have stayed. No where else currently has this level of knowledge available. As for more info on cell biology type stuff i may need to get more active on the DIYBIO google group again ( groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/diybio). They talk a lot about cell culture, Gel electrophoresis, microscopy, etc. But they lack many people doing things with plants like tissue culture. The main downside for me is that it is an email system rather than a real forum. It works, but the format kinda bugs me sometimes. At least it is easily searchable and since it is hosted by google it will never fade out. I'm REALLY liking the stuff on the MIT OpenAg Forum. ( forum.openag.media.mit.edu/) The community there is directly plant focused, but the community is still young and maturing. It is mostly focused on building artificial growth chambers known as "food computers". BUT there is potential to chime in on various plant breeding and other topics. I am starting to do so and i can already see a few people really interested in it. It also used the Discourse forum software which i have found to cater to my needs perfectly. It links to hyperlinks VERY well, it can upload photos to that forum directly but can also link to them seamlessly and effortlessly as well. It has a modern look and easy on the eyes, easy to search, just all around good. I give it 5 out of 5 stars. I think i will continue to post more things and topics over there to try and broaden the discussions taking place there. What it lacks in threads and topics it makes up for in potential. It has the potential to have deep discussions on breeding and genetics and real heavy science based stuff for those who would want to. But there is also a wide variety of people who are there already who are not technically minded or who live in various countries and don't speak English all that well. I have seen many people there from India and Korea for example who are interested in growing things. I immediately suggested an endowment that would continue to fund the forum even if OSSI goes bust. Longevity of a plant breeding forum is important to me. People have put a tremendous amount of effort into the posts, and to the projects written about. I hate it when forums disappear and the data is essentially deleted. It's like deleting an encyclopedia. The seed savers exchange is an example of how wrong things can go with forums. Lacking a long-term commitment to support the forum might be overcome by licensing the content via some sort of Open Source collaborative copyright, such as Creative Commons. And by making the forum easily downloadable. I suspect that just about everyone that participates in a forum like that would be glad to have their writings copied and hosted elsewhere. People have been plagiarizing my writing since 1994. I feel flattered every time. It's not like I have any expectation to make money from writing. It seems like another obvious requirement for a forum is photo hosting. The Photobucket fiasco is waiting to happen all over again if a site doesn't host it's own photos. That significantly increases resources required to host/serve the forum, but disk space and bandwidth are relatively cheap these days. Not something that I can afford any more but many people can. My preference would also be to keep it a pure plant breeding forum: No politics, religion, etc. And to use real names on posts. Sure makes moderation easier. I think that a forum should have widely distributed leadership. In other words, that anyone that is an active participant and plays nice should have some degree or other of moderation capabilities. I'm looking at forum software that auto-deletes posts if several regular users mark it as spam. No moderator intervention required. Proboards does a wonderful job managing security and limiting spam. Self operated forums have to provide that service themselves. I've been hosting forums since 1994. Spam is a never-ending problem. I really enjoy forums that have some sort of gaming system built into them. In other words a built in reputation system. If I see a post that I really enjoy, I like to be able to give it a thumbs-up. I like getting acknowledged. That can also go a long way towards helping with moderation, for example deleting spam via consensus. Since OSSI is all about Open Source seeds, the software that runs the forum should also be open source. Since about 50% of users are reading forums with mobile devices, the forum software should dynamically sense that and display content appropriately. That's a pretty common feature of forum software these days. +1 love it. The OSSI has a lot of academics on it. I don't know what sort of dynamic that might create. interesting point. That could be good or bad. If the leadership is mainly academics then that could cause problems. No offense meant to Carol Deppe or Dr. Carolyn over at Tomatoville, but their writing style and the way the speak to people like me often comes off as snarky, condescending, and sometimes like they think they know more than anyone else because of their scientific background. I dont know, but it does cause problems. Especially on Tomatoville and other gardening forums Carolyn has been a menace and her friendship with that Mishka guy have bullied and driven many real great people away. When the leadership is like that it is bad. Seed Savers Exchange also comes to mind like this as a truly bad example. I truly hope that is not the case with OSSI leadership but i have a sneaking suspicion that it could very well be in danger of that. The community that have already pledged varieties does seed diverse though so perhaps that is not the case. Something interesting though is that OSSI has extended several invitations to people like Alan Kapuler and his daughter and both have declined the offer to join OSSI. Perhaps the sting of the Seed Savers Exchange is still fresh. Or perhaps they feel that Public Domain is good enough and Open Source is frivolous. And why does OSSI want a forum in the first place? What do they hope to get out of it? I personally really dislike posting anything to facebook that has any enduring value. Because I can't find posts later to add an update to them. It's great for planning a trip, or a seed swap. Sucks as a repository of knowledge. I think that's the benefit for me of forums. I'm still making regular updates to posts that I started years ago. I have never liked polls on forums, but I wonder if there would be some value in a rating system for varieties? This forum is my home on the web. I've read nearly every post made here since I joined about 8 years ago. It works well for me, as it is. Maybe, I should recommend that OSSI join us here. A rating system could potentially be good for varieties. Interesting idea. How would one change their vote though if they changed there minds later though? I'm interested in a forum from OSSI but as others have said they are a bit skeptical. Maybe that skepticism is valid. I am half skeptical and half optimistic at this point. Could go either way. My preference would also be to keep it a pure plant breeding forum: No politics, religion, etc. And to use real names on posts. Sure makes moderation easier. +1 That is one thing that bugs me about HG. We USED to have the location feature and nearly everyone had it. Then at some point the software updated and they all dissapeared. I have worked to add it back though editing of my Profile. But no one else really has it on theirs except Rowan and maybe a few others. Do people want me to change my profile name to my real name? i could do so if it is something people would prefer. I've actually contemplated doing so. |
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Post by richardw on Dec 5, 2017 13:30:59 GMT -5
My preference would also be to keep it a pure plant breeding forum: No politics, religion, etc. And to use real names on posts. Sure makes moderation easier. Not only real names but approximate geographic locations too, helps the reader understand the interrelationships between climate, latitude and plant growth. |
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Post by billw on Dec 5, 2017 14:35:54 GMT -5
The OSSI leadership is mostly academics, but the pledged varieties are overwhelmingly produced by freelancers and small seed companies, so I imagine that split would be reflected in the forum.
I would hope than an OSSI forum would welcome plant breeders in general and not just OSSI breeders.
As for getting along, while gardening forums run from friendly to hostile and everything in between, I have generally found any gathering of plant breeders to be cordial, with the possible exception being when the subject of genetic engineering is raised.
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Post by walt on Dec 5, 2017 15:47:36 GMT -5
Yesterday I wrote that I had tried to register at the foodgardenproject and it didn't work This morning when checking my email, I checked my spam, which I seldom do. There was a not to me saying my foodgardenproject regestration had worked.
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Post by paquebot on Dec 5, 2017 20:33:34 GMT -5
Keen, for the record, Quean Carolyn has never been a "Dr." and never will be!
Martin
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Dec 5, 2017 23:34:11 GMT -5
Keen, for the record, Quean Carolyn has never been a "Dr." and never will be! Martin Well im not trying to pick on her. I'm actually trying to be really nice. I never considered her a "Dr" either, but so many people call her that and supposedly one of those "Dr" tomato varieties is named after her. Doubtless someone will tattle to her and mishka that i am talking about them and i will suddenly get banned for speaking my opinion and standing up about cyber bullying and unintentional condecending like ways of speaking to people through text. Im only speaking the truth. Set me on fire at the stake for heresey if you must but someone had to say it. Ive seen the hatred and flaring tempers usually when it comes to heirloom tomatoes. I call those people tomato nazis and they hate that term but that is what they are. So should politics, religion, and heirloom tomatoes be banned subjects? Lol. I'm being half serious here. Heirloom tomatoes are like a religion. |
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Post by steev on Dec 6, 2017 0:45:05 GMT -5
Nor will "Queen" ever be spelled "Quean".
Yes; people get all "religious" about tomatoes, among other things: were I religious, I might care, but I am not and I do not; a tomato is a tomato; if it serves my purposes, it has my support; if not, it can go to hell; if it serves someone else's purposes, well and good; I don't want to destroy it; I just don't want to struggle with it.
Kind of how I feel about tech.
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Post by paquebot on Dec 6, 2017 1:08:23 GMT -5
Nor will "Queen" ever be spelled "Quean". Your lesson for today to increase your vocabulary: Look up the word "quean" in the English dictionary and see if it applies. Martin |
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Post by paquebot on Dec 6, 2017 1:14:49 GMT -5
Keen, among the major tomato growers, I am one of few who was never banned from TV because I was never a member. My late brother was banned without making a single posting. No apparent reason other than that he was my brother. He, too, was into tomatoes and his prowess in container gardening would have been quite useful. Their loss and Heaven's gain.
Martin
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Post by jocelyn on Dec 6, 2017 5:44:48 GMT -5
I got in to the foodgarden one too, no trouble the second time. I did let the software select the time zone, but no other difference.
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