Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 4, 2018 18:24:49 GMT -5
I searched for a thread on this, but didn't find one. It's possible I didn't find that sweet spot of key words, but in the off chance a thread doesn't already exist, I thought I'd start one.
What have y'all found to be the most effective way to 'control' your indeterminate tomatoes? It seems there are as many ways (and as many fads) as there are diet trends. Which ones work well? Which ones have you found to be a waste of money? Of time? Do you change tactics when growing big beefsteaks vs. cherry tomatoes? Cages, string, trellis, telekinesis... what works in your garden?
This year I'll be growing apx 15 different types of tomatoes, all indeterminate. I normally grow a couple types of new tomatoes each year, just to end up disliking most of them and fighting a losing battle with spider mites on the rest. I've yet to find any 'tried and true' varieties that fit both my garden and my tastes. Enter 2018, the Tomato Hunger Games.
Any way I look at it, it's going to be an overcrowded clusterfun of tomatoes this season, so finding a simple yet efficient way to keep the kids in line (as much as possible) has moved high up on my to-do list. My current method of tomato 'control' is pretty lazy, just a stake/pole/long-straight-thingy stuck in the ground and string to tie up the branches. It's hardly been the most efficient method, especially when the suckers get fruit heavy. I've used cages in the past, but find them either weak and useless, or industrial but too expensive for my current garden budget.
So yeah, lemme know what you got!
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Post by oxbowfarm on Jan 4, 2018 18:54:47 GMT -5
I don't know that I have any useful advice. When we grew tomatoes outdoors I always did stake and weave with indeterminates. I don't love stake and weave, but it has the advantage of being relatively easy and cheap to put up. I don't know that I'd bother for just 15 plants though.
Now we grow all our tomatoes in high tunnels and prune to single leaders and clip to trellis twine from overhead wires. Not really applicable to a home garden unless you want to rig up some kind of wire?
There's always big cages of reinforcing wire if you have space to store them when not in use. I've seen big gardeners that use them and they seem happy with it.
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Post by reed on Jan 4, 2018 20:09:59 GMT -5
Don't know if this would be of use for you but I'v started using cattle panels. Sections of welded wire looks like fence wire but much more sturdy. They come in 16' sections 4' wide. The farm store cuts them for me to 8' as I can't haul a 16' Anyway then I just drive a single steel fence post and lean the panel against it at an angle. Plant on the underside so the plants come up through the first couple of runs on their own then just keep sticking them back through to the downhill side so they weave themselves back up. Works decent but you do still have to do some tying and they do generally overgrow the top and flop back down. I just do that for big tomatoes, others I just tie to the garden fence or let sprawl on the ground.
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Post by steev on Jan 4, 2018 21:56:42 GMT -5
Don't know your space constraints; I have posts 15' apart to which I attach welded fence wire, then tie the toms to it; I think strips of worn-out sheets are traditional ties, so as not to cut the stems.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Jan 5, 2018 2:02:23 GMT -5
On my farm tomatoes are grown sprawling on the ground.
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Post by steev on Jan 5, 2018 2:48:34 GMT -5
Yeah, well, you go around shoe-less, damned near a savage, fer chrissakes.
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 5, 2018 11:26:55 GMT -5
Yeah, well, you go around shoe-less, damned near a savage, fer chrissakes. Haha, don't forget his homemade denim skirts / kilts.  |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 5, 2018 11:31:08 GMT -5
I'm trying to get into tomatoes more. Ive kinda been using regular ol tomato cages but let the suckers or whatever sprawl.
This past season i tried direct seeding and some of the varieties were very weak in supporting themselves while others did fine. No cages or metal sticks with hoops on them. I kinda like the metal sticks with loops though.
Im hoping wild tomato breeding will help move better support genetics into the domestic tomato genome. The F1 S. Pennelli tomato last year grew huge! But it was not staked and didnt need to be. But it kept growing and growing and growing!
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 5, 2018 11:52:08 GMT -5
I don't know that I have any useful advice. When we grew tomatoes outdoors I always did stake and weave with indeterminates. I don't love stake and weave, but it has the advantage of being relatively easy and cheap to put up. I don't know that I'd bother for just 15 plants though. Now we grow all our tomatoes in high tunnels and prune to single leaders and clip to trellis twine from overhead wires. Not really applicable to a home garden unless you want to rig up some kind of wire? There's always big cages of reinforcing wire if you have space to store them when not in use. I've seen big gardeners that use them and they seem happy with it. I've got 15 varieties (well, 18, shit, learn to count Day...) and so it'll be more like 30 - 40 plants minimum, since I don't want to credit/dismiss a variety based on a single sample, and I still have a few plants that overwintered from last year. I like the idea of a wire with strings coming down, as I've seen a few pictures of tomatoes done up like that. Looks slick. With the logistics of my garden though, I don't think it'll work. Cages work well for a friend of mine who gardens nearby, but she grows mostly determinate varieties and her yard is a minefield of cages in the off season. I don't have a shed/garage/storage space currently, so things that pack down or lay flat are a huge benefit. Don't know if this would be of use for you but I've started using cattle panels. Sections of welded wire looks like fence wire but much more sturdy. They come in 16' sections 4' wide. The farm store cuts them for me to 8' as I can't haul a 16' Anyway then I just drive a single steel fence post and lean the panel against it at an angle. Plant on the underside so the plants come up through the first couple of runs on their own then just keep sticking them back through to the downhill side so they weave themselves back up. Works decent but you do still have to do some tying and they do generally overgrow the top and flop back down. I just do that for big tomatoes, others I just tie to the garden fence or let sprawl on the ground. I hear cattle panels are great! -- I really want to try them, as I feel like they could be extremely useful for other things too, like growing beans and curcurbits etc. I like the idea of being able to rotate crops without having to completely rip up the infrastructure around them. I'm not sure yet if I can justify the price/installation though, with this being a rented property. Also, Home Depot is the only place near me that seems to carry cattle panels, and while I can often badger the ladies and gentlemen there into cutting wood to length when I need it, I'm not sure they'd be thrilled to (or even allowed to) unroll and and chop up one of those babies. I have a truck, but it's an '01 Tacoma double cab, so my bed space is a bit limited. Definitely a solid option I'm considering though, and definitely on my radar if/when I ever have a bit of dirt to call my own. Don't know your space constraints; I have posts 15' apart to which I attach welded fence wire, then tie the toms to it; I think strips of worn-out sheets are traditional ties, so as not to cut the stems. My space constraints are rough -- I have a small semi-urban backyard of, maybe, 1200+/- sqft, I'm ball parking. Then another 400 sq/ft or so of cement parking pad which I usually let the viners sprawl over since it keeps the fruit off the dirt anyway. A few planters on it as well. That's all she wrote! So I love the idea of using something less intense than cattle panels for now, such as welded fence wire as you suggest... Something that is easy enough to maneuver/move/set up (I'm a one person show). Is there a difference between welded wire and hardware cloth? On my farm tomatoes are grown sprawling on the ground. With the little space I have, I need to grow vertical as much as possible, otherwise I have to plant less (boo, hiss) or find a way to levitate over the ground to check on my crops, instead of walking. xD However, I can totally see how if you're planting tons of tomatoes, letting them sprawl is the only logical solution, since staking and tying up hundreds of plants couldn't be unfeasible I'd imagine. I am curious how that works out for you in terms of tomato varieties though: do some work better as little self supporting bushes than others? Big fruit vs. little fruit, all that. |
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 5, 2018 11:56:42 GMT -5
I'm trying to get into tomatoes more. Ive kinda been using regular ol tomato cages but let the suckers or whatever sprawl. This past season i tried direct seeding and some of the varieties were very weak in supporting themselves while others did fine. No cages or metal sticks with hoops on them. I kinda like the metal sticks with loops though. What are these metal sticks with hoops in them you're talking about? Im hoping wild tomato breeding will help move better support genetics into the domestic tomato genome. The F1 S. Pennelli tomato last year grew huge! But it was not staked and didnt need to be. But it kept growing and growing and growing! Interesting! Have you had any success on the crossing front? I've never much messed with genetics in the solanaceae family, as I still have too big a crush on the curcurbits xD But I'm always curious to hear what others are doing with them. Do you have a project board for it set up? If so link me, I'd love to check it out. |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 5, 2018 12:15:08 GMT -5
I kinda like the metal sticks with loops though. What are these metal sticks with hoops in them you're talking about?  Im hoping wild tomato breeding will help move better support genetics into the domestic tomato genome. The F1 S. Pennelli tomato last year grew huge! But it was not staked and didnt need to be. But it kept growing and growing and growing! Interesting! Have you had any success on the crossing front? I've never much messed with genetics in the solanaceae family, as I still have too big a crush on the curcurbits xD But I'm always curious to hear what others are doing with them. Do you have a project board for it set up? If so link me, I'd love to check it out. Nope. I don't think I've got the hang of tomato crossing by hand. I never seem to be able to find pollen or i break the stigmas off on accident. Ive just been working with Joseph and William and others on the big wild tomato breeding project thingy. Like them i too am interested in large showy flowers and attraction from pollinators among othe wild traits and new fruit flavors and colors. Though.. Maybe i should make a wild tomato breeding wiki thing on my website... |
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Post by keen101 (Biolumo / Andrew B.) on Jan 5, 2018 12:28:38 GMT -5
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Post by walt on Jan 5, 2018 13:08:49 GMT -5
I have two ways of dealing with indeterminate tomatoes.
I'm in Kansas and have to deal with hot dry winds. I have found that S. pimpinellifolium LA 0722 will grow into a tangled mat about a foot thick. Lift up one side of it and there will be lots of pea-sized tomatoes. The plant-mat protects the flowers from the hot dry wind and lets the flowers self pollinate when they otherwise wouldn't set. And I once had a plant of LA 0722 give 4,000 fruit in one picking. That was only 3 kilo, and it took 3 men about 6 hours to pick them, so there is a down side. But it gives reliable tomatoes for me, a handfull at at time. And I don't have to replant, rather I have to thin.
The F1 hybrid between larger tomatoes x LA 0722 are cherry size but the plant will do the same way.
Bigger tomatoes are more of a problem. Neighbors do stake tomatoes and get crops of large tomatoes. But they have a gap in production between those that set before the heat and those that set after the heat. Now that there are parthenocarpic tomatoes, maybe that is no longer a problem. I haven't checked.
So larger tomatoes I put down cardboard to choke weeds and to keep dirt from splashing up on the plant and fruit. Over the cardboard I put chipped wood that he electric company will deliver if they are trimming branches nearby. Then I let the plants splawl. Works well enough.
In my garden, Roma is concidered a big tomato, though some neighbors grow beefstake types. It can be done.
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 5, 2018 14:14:43 GMT -5
Here are the relevant threads if you want to read them! I do! Thank you. I'm not on those other forums (and probably won't be unless HG goes under; I'm embarrassingly forum-monogamistic like that xD) but I'll definitely read them! Though if it results in the tomato breeding bug biting me in the ass... well, I'm definitely blaming you for it.  |
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Day
gardener
When in doubt, grow it out.
Posts: 171
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Post by Day on Jan 5, 2018 14:29:02 GMT -5
I have two ways of dealing with indeterminate tomatoes. I'm in Kansas and have to deal with hot dry winds. I have found that S. pimpinellifolium LA 0722 will grow into a tangled mat about a foot thick. Lift up one side of it and there will be lots of pea-sized tomatoes. The plant-mat protects the flowers from the hot dry wind and lets the flowers self pollinate when they otherwise wouldn't set. And I once had a plant of LA 0722 give 4,000 fruit in one picking. That was only 3 kilo, and it took 3 men about 6 hours to pick them, so there is a down side. But it gives reliable tomatoes for me, a handfull at at time. And I don't have to replant, rather I have to thin. The F1 hybrid between larger tomatoes x LA 0722 are cherry size but the plant will do the same way. 4,000 in one pick, holy cripes... I can't even visualize what a filled basket/bucket/truck bed like that would look like  Bigger tomatoes are more of a problem. Neighbors do stake tomatoes and get crops of large tomatoes. But they have a gap in production between those that set before the heat and those that set after the heat. Now that there are parthenocarpic tomatoes, maybe that is no longer a problem. I haven't checked. So larger tomatoes I put down cardboard to choke weeds and to keep dirt from splashing up on the plant and fruit. Over the cardboard I put chipped wood that he electric company will deliver if they are trimming branches nearby. Then I let the plants splawl. Works well enough. In my garden, Roma is concidered a big tomato, though some neighbors grow beefstake types. It can be done. Interesting way to do it; makes sense. I definitely have the heat gap problem too. On the bright side, I'll be planting out tomatoes in the garden probably by the end of the month, so I get quite a head start on the season. My usual tactic is to take suckers around May, before it gets stupid hot, and put a few in a shadier part of the garden. They grow up, don't produce amazingly due to limited sunlight, but are usually able to put on a flush or two while the full sun/full death tomatoes suffer and I prune them back when it starts to cool. The second group is now getting too shady too produce much, and the first group has put on new branches and is ramping up for fall/winter production. Not a perfect method, but works ok in a good year. This time I'm going to do a huge mass grow out this spring (basically, now) and then when it gets hot just pull the plants I didn't like the taste of or that never produced. I won't do sucker transplant this year, as there won't be any available space. As for size, I'm running the gamut this year from cherries to water balloons... which will be an interesting lesson in plant supporting. |
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