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Post by pierre on Jul 27, 2010 7:22:04 GMT -5
Historically there was easy to slice at demand large Butternut shaped Pleine de Naples moschata sold at markets.
Now it is also the smaller size (single service) that make Butternuts attractive as most are under 1Kg. Little cheaper than Potimaron.
MdP being too big and is sold sliced so for immediate use only. Or whole if smaller.
Mealy or stringy texture is considered not so attractive for moschata used people.
Far from steaming and apart soups, most culinary preparations are eliminating part of pumpkins flesh water or include some frying.
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Post by galina on Aug 1, 2010 14:12:56 GMT -5
[quote author=raymondo board=stuff thread=4422 post=45681 time=1280224000)
My favourite is Australian Butter, even though it's a little too big.[/quote]
This is an amazing squash. Grew them last year and this. Very, very bright yellow, giant sized Buttercup squash. Even some of the stems are yellow.
Last year the vines were huge. This year from the same seed packet, the vines are smaller and I have only just got the first male flower. Although I water and feed them, they certainly hate this drought.
Excellent flavour too. I wish I could have got seeds last year, but never had a male and a female flower at the same time, or at a time when I could be around to handpollinate them. With a bit of adjustment (usually growing from own produced seeds works well if there was promise in the first place), this one might be a good reliable addition for the garden here as last year the first fruit was very early.
Have you ever grown the New Zealand Storage Pumpkin c maxima Whangaparoa Crown? Finally tracked down seeds from Kokopelli in France and it shows promise too. I believe Sweet Meat and Crown Prince were bred from Whanga. Again very tasty and stores for months.
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Post by bobinthebul on Aug 4, 2010 6:00:25 GMT -5
Different strokes for different folks! Here, it was maximas that dominated historically, with the notable exception of one moschata called Gramma, which was used for pies. The most popular maximas were Jarrahdale and Queensland Blue, with Triamble and Iron Bark bringing up the rear. That was before the supermarket. Nowadays, moschatas are everywhere, dominating supermarket shelves. The most common cultivars are Jap and Butternut with maximas making only an occasional appearance. Maximas are still popular in the home garden, especially the good keepers. My favourite is Australian Butter, even though it's a little too big. This is interesting. In Turkey, even in the supermarkets, the big blue maximas are definitely king. Some upscale supermarkets are carrying butternut now but it's not very popular. Part of the reason is probably the limited use of winter squash anyway; most people don't know what to do with it except boil it in sugar syrup for a winter dessert. There are some moschatas here and there used in the same way but they tend to watery and fibrous. I found a Musque de Provence last year in New York at a farmer's market and grabbed it. I was similarly underwhelmed; lots of dark orange meat but it also seemed rather fibrous. I use them mostly in savory dishes and love Futtsu for that. This year I'm trying Bungkan also; it seems fairly productive. Most pepos don't really do it for me but I do like a good acorn squash and am growing Table Queen. I've been told it's much better than the variety common in grocery stores. It's still setting fruit right and left, including several double fruits, fun! I'm also growing Triamble, I've only got three fruits so far but they're so beautiful I don't really care. |
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Post by Alan on Aug 4, 2010 23:07:05 GMT -5
I used mass crossing in selecting hubbards, but still I am not happy. The performance is still bad. Hmm, which generation is this? Did you did controled crosses at some stage or only open pollinations? How many varieties you started with? Hristo, Some have been via controlled crosses, others via mass crosses, either way the results are the same, just not a terribly reliable class of squash for the Ohio Valley. Don't get me wrong, they are delicious, I would rather use a Hubbard than most any other winter squash for any cullinary use, and they can be grown here, if they are babied, but they definitely aren't much of a survival food. Suprisingly enough however "sweet meat" has earned it's place as have many buttercup and Kabocha types which I will merge into a genepool/grex/landrace. I have returned this year mostly to Moshata types which I have selected heavily for my needs, those which perform the best will become a distinct adaptavar race, all the original seed having come from the local seed shop, my own collections locally, long island seed, and hopefully in the future some from Joseph's landrace. The hubbards all came from various sources as well, though mostly originally from Long Island Seed, I had bred in a bit of PMT tolerance and vine borer tolerance, but not enough apparently, of course the dry summers here don't help matters any either. |
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Aug 5, 2010 0:22:10 GMT -5
This is pretty much how Glenn Drowns created his own very early water melon, Blacktail mountain. I am trying to grow blacktail mountain watermelon this summer. It does not seem to be adapted to my garden. To start with I got about 5% germination, and the second planting was about the same. (Good thing I had an ounce of those tiny seeds to work with!) Even though it seems to be barely growing there are a couple ping-pong ball sized fruits, so maybe I am just being impatient by expecting it to grow like Charleston Grey. I expect my end of season frost within 8 weeks so I hope to write more about it then. I'm about a week away from harvesting my first Astronomy Domine sweet corn. Looking forward to that. Regards, Joseph |
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Post by raymondo on Aug 5, 2010 7:21:07 GMT -5
Have you ever grown the New Zealand Storage Pumpkin c maxima Whangaparoa Crown? Finally tracked down seeds from Kokopelli in France and it shows promise too. I believe Sweet Meat and Crown Prince were bred from Whanga. I haven't grown Whangaparoa Crown but I bought some Crown Prince last year at the local organic fruit and veg shop and they were excellent. Great flavour. I saved some seed though they might not be pure. I'll be growing them this year. |
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Post by Walk on Aug 5, 2010 7:56:51 GMT -5
I've been searching for a nutty flavored, flaky, dry maxima that will grow well here and also keeps well. I'm currently working with Cha Cha, a hybrid from Johnny's that I'm trying to work back to an open pollinated variety (Not Cha?). Anyway, it's hard to find the dry, flaky cooking qualities as most folks seem to want something creamy smooth and sweet. Any varieties that come to mind? Catalog descriptions can be so misleading. We grew Australian Butter one year as it was supposed to be dry but it cooked up quite moist and creamy (grew well and kept very well though). It's hard to find the perfect squash as we use them in very different recipes depending on their cooking attributes. By the way, we have a moschata, Sucrine du Berry, from 2009 harvest that is still keeping in our pantry. It's a big butternut type that starts out with green fruit. It's extremely fragrant and tasty, but the texture is watery and stringy. Makes good soup though and also good for baking into breads. That's probably where this final fruit from 2009 will end up but I've been hanging on to it to see how long it will keep.
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Post by raymondo on Aug 6, 2010 5:05:06 GMT -5
Any varieties that come to mind? Crown Prince, Jarrahdale and Triamble are quite dry. Not sure I'd call them flaky though. |
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Post by 12540dumont on Sept 4, 2011 12:03:26 GMT -5
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Post by Hristo on Sept 4, 2011 12:47:55 GMT -5
I have not grown this variety, so I do not know first hand, but for you it's easy, just look at the seeds you have. It's maxima on the NZ site's photo... for sure.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Sept 4, 2011 13:57:38 GMT -5
It's maxima on the NZ site's photo... for sure. Agreed. The distinguishing characteristic being the round corky stem... |
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Post by raymondo on Sept 4, 2011 16:35:51 GMT -5
I third that. It's a maxima.
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Post by jondear on Mar 4, 2014 20:57:57 GMT -5
I'm interested in breeding and selecting kabocha Squash here in Maine. There are a lot of great varieties out there. My deal is paying up to 50ish cents per seed is getting my goat. I prefer frugal over cheap  My goals: • dry • flakey • pastey • sweet • early • 3 to 5 pounds • long storage • smooth skin • thick flesh small seed cavity • productive • cool weather tolerant • disease resistant Now some questions. My uncle has been saving seed from sweet mama for a few years. I got some seed from him. I have seed for Special Export. I can get more seeds for different squash to grow as well. Would you grow more in year one or slowly add new ones in future years? How much of a hassle is it to keep adding hybrid versus op lines as far as making selections? Any thoughts? |
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Post by jondear on Jun 10, 2014 20:19:28 GMT -5
I ended up planting these.
•F1 Special Export
•F3 Sweet Mama that was really vigorous
•F2 Sunshine that grew along side Jarrahdale, Sweetmeat, Queensland Blue, Burgess Buttercup, and Futsu Black (although I doubt it crossed with the moschata.)
• F2 of what I believe was a Jarrahdale X Queensland Blue
• F3 of a kabocha that grew from a grocery store kabocha squash a few years ago
I went heavy on the first 2 ~ 75% and ~ 25% of the last 3.
Next year should be more interesting.
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Post by raymondo on Jun 11, 2014 1:44:16 GMT -5
Will you be hand-pollinating? Saving a few seeds from each cross?
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