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Post by garnetmoth on Jan 18, 2011 22:29:01 GMT -5
So, weve all talked about food prices, and have seen economics ebb and flow, and my husband and I currently live in a city, learning skills like raising rabbits, raising plants from seed, im going to likely tackle tanning next week....
What if the sh*t really did hit the fan? Would any of you great people here be interested in banding together? What are your thoughts, hopes, fears, etc?
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Post by Alan on Jan 18, 2011 23:15:26 GMT -5
Part 1. Yes, and your welcome to come here  Part 2. Anything and everything you can think of in all of the above categories. |
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Post by atash on Jan 19, 2011 0:30:41 GMT -5
For many people it already has. The food price increases I have been warning about for a while have already hit many countries with undervalued currencies. We are not experiencing it to the same degree yet, but as Indians and Chinese raise prices out of desperation, and as Indians perhaps slap an export ban on their underpriced wheat, it will cause a chain reaction that will eventually reach back to us. Word is already getting out: www.economicpolicyjournal.com/2011/01/cattle-network-warns-farmers-big-time.htmlYou are absolutely correct that cooperative action is the solution, because division of labor is already breaking down with our chronic high unemployment rates. If you create a small local economy that is partially decoupled from the larger economy, then it is logically possible to maintain it without too much regard for what is going on outside the small economy. Imagine for example that it really was self-sufficient (not entirely realistic, but just to see the big picture); then price levels and breakdown of the outside economy would be irrelevant. Unless you are planning to join a community already in existence, and soon, I suggest staging the consolidation of personal economies. The reason is because I think you will find it difficult to obtain commitments, until hands are forced by desperation. Problem with waiting until desperate, is that by then it will be too late. One problem I am seeing a lot of is lack of capital. People who are affluent don't perceive any problem, and most of the rest have nothing to contribute. |
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Post by garnetmoth on Jan 19, 2011 1:50:37 GMT -5
This is why I love you people!
Alan: Ill tattoo the directions on me in case the GPS goes down :-)
Atash: Thats what Im thinking.... I am reading WOTE right now, and its fascinating. I do think giving food to poor countries is violence because we give less when its expensive, and they starve. Especially what is going on in India where we have messed with what crops they used to grow and brought in "improved" seed...
We just refinanced our house to a shorter term lower rate, but the question is, will it be relevant in 5 years? We have a 6-month emergency fund, and I am considering asking my hubby about restructuring our budget a bit- like if cage wire goes up by $5, we should buy 10 rolls as a hedge against further raises.... (rabbits are really easy to keep, and a joy)
Good lumber, durable goods, i may even look into a treadle sewing machine....
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Post by ozarklady on Jan 19, 2011 2:05:11 GMT -5
May I suggest, a fund for going to auctions, both estate, and livestock type. You can often find wonderful deals there.
Our place is paid off, but will that matter in 5 years, if we can't get up the money to pay the taxes?
I am getting to know various communities, and getting training in many areas, that I feel might come in handy, when SHTF for everyone. And my training will be good for me and any community, first off is EMT training, second is Ham radio, in an emergency, both will be needed. And if no SHTF like in Y2K, that training won't hurt me at all and is still useful.
There was a country, I don't remember where, and they grew many crops, as time went by, they began to specialize, and only grew the one crop. It failed, and many of the people starved. The survivors, decided to grow 3-4 crops and trade locally, and then sell the excess abroad. So, it makes sense, to do what you can for yourself, trade in your community, and have something to trade to other communities. A better garden and homestead is good whether SHTF or not.
Barter is good for the community!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jan 19, 2011 12:25:03 GMT -5
What if the sh*t really did hit the fan? Would any of you great people here be interested in banding together? What are your thoughts, hopes, fears, etc? That is PRECISELY what we are working towards achieving. That's why we are looking for such a huge piece of land with such specific qualities. Our hope is to initiate a community and get systems in place now so that when the time comes, others can be more easily assimilated. There is no fear. There is expectation. |
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Post by garnetmoth on Jan 19, 2011 14:21:09 GMT -5
Good ideas OzarkLady! We already thrift and yard sale a lot.
I am not sure about taxes- If money is useless, then I cant imagine a whole lot of use for a government to try to extract taxes. Maybe it will go back to barter- You turn in 25% of your harvests for protection, access to an MD, etc...?
I will be building a solar dehydrator this year, I just have to figure out some costing for the rest of the materials vs. what ive already scrounged.
Good for you all Jo! How big are you looking?
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Post by spacecase0 on Jan 19, 2011 17:44:40 GMT -5
intentional communities can help even if nothing bad happens,
I am trying to start one where I grew up,
very hard to start something when I don't live there.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jan 20, 2011 12:00:15 GMT -5
2000 to 3000 acres. We've been in prayer and fasting for almost a year now. The anniversary will be February 20th.
Aside from the the main purpose, I recently came to a sort of mini-epiphany regarding the fact that we have not eaten for 60 days, or 2 months, out of the year. The ripple effects are rather astonishing and I have to wonder just how the upper economic echelons would react if an entire sector of us lower level beings engaged in such "wild" behavior en masse.
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Post by synergy on Jan 22, 2011 0:46:45 GMT -5
Are you juice fasting for two months ? Or selectively fasting certains sets of days throughout the year?
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Post by garnetmoth on Jan 22, 2011 0:53:51 GMT -5
wow. big site. and huge determination!
may you find what you need, affordably!
Do you mean what happens if 1st world peoples fast? I bought a $1 snack today and pondered for a while that many humans live on $1 a day or less. if we all paid more the actual cost of food, or ate less of it, and choose to plant trees, build composting toilets, and eat more veg and less animal products, wed make a big dent!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jan 22, 2011 7:51:20 GMT -5
Are you juice fasting for two months ? Or selectively fasting certains sets of days throughout the year? Thanks for asking! Certain sets of days throughout the year is what we are doing now. Typically, the 5 days out of the last full week of the month. We've never done this before so we allowed ourselves to modify the process here and there where necessary. As an example, when we went to Indiana, we fasted 3 days before the trip and again 3 days after. Now that we are at the end, we have a better understanding of our minds and bodies through the process so this is our model: We have our Sunday worship service (at home, we don't attend a building). At this time we have a bit of wine and unleavened bread. Sunday through Thursday we have 2 cups of coffee (with milk) each morning and vitamins, a multi, a calcium, and a B-12. We drink water through the day. If I get leg cramps, I'll take an extra calcium, maybe two. However, if I drink enough water this generally does not occur. When we first started this we deluded ourselves into thinking that we needed to feast before and after the feast... Not a smart idea!  Now we eat minimally both before and after. My big issue is that I cook to much. At first, I kept fantasizing things and creating them, deserts in particular. About 5 months in I suddenly realized, "Gee, could I possibly be more stupid?" Well, of course the answer to that question was, YES! I'm rather talented at being stupid, but does that mean I need to ASPIRE to being stupid? Isn't this whole process about improving? Since that little lecture, I've been able to curb my tendencies somewhat.  |
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Post by mnjrutherford on Jan 22, 2011 8:03:55 GMT -5
wow. big site. and huge determination! may you find what you need, affordably! Yep, big enough for a small community. That is what I believe will be most optimally capable of surviving. As for "affordable", well, that will be most interesting. We actually have found a somewhat suitable site in Arkansas on the border of Hot Spring and Garland counties. There is a water powered mill (a requirement) on the property but previous owners diverted the river (fishing ponds and an streams are also requirements) so it isn't functional at this time. Of course, that can be changed. Do you mean what happens if 1st world peoples fast? I bought a $1 snack today and pondered for a while that many humans live on $1 a day or less. if we all paid more the actual cost of food, or ate less of it, and choose to plant trees, build composting toilets, and eat more veg and less animal products, wed make a big dent! Yep, that is exactly what I mean. After all, most 3rd world peoples fast on a regular basis. My son's modified fast is more than many children ever see in a given day. They have a breakfast of yogurt, cereal, and milk and a dinner of half a sandwich, chips, fruit, and milk. If I allow myself to dwell on it, I sometimes ponder the many millions of children who would think themselves in heaven to have the luxurious lifestyles we enjoy. It makes my spirit weep but it also bolsters my determination to change it any way I can. |
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Post by honeydew on Jan 22, 2011 10:55:29 GMT -5
I bet a theme is emerging with me....I just sit in disbelief half the time and wonder how things ever got the way they are, and is it just some sick joke.
The other half of the time I am becoming more prepared. Which even in the best of cases is not a bad thing.
At least we will have good healthy food as long as we can pay the mortgage and property taxes.
My thoughts are that getting out of the city is not a bad thing on many levels. But it is not for everyone. Building your networks and your safety nets before you *need* them desperately is big, of course.
Lots of food can be produced within city limits, we could afford for some attitudes and bylaws to change in many municipalities.
One of my concerns is that people who have not prepared, or do not have the skills to truly take care of themselves is such extreme survivalist situations, will seek out refuge with those who have prepared. Not that THAT in itself is a bad thing, but how will that person deal with it? Ask for help? Steal food from gardens/pantries of those who have prepared? Or worse?
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Post by honeydew on Jan 22, 2011 11:18:28 GMT -5
Good ideas OzarkLady! We already thrift and yard sale a lot. I am not sure about taxes- If money is useless, then I cant imagine a whole lot of use for a government to try to extract taxes. Maybe it will go back to barter- You turn in 25% of your harvests for protection, access to an MD, etc...? I will be building a solar dehydrator this year, I just have to figure out some costing for the rest of the materials vs. what ive already scrounged. Good for you all Jo! How big are you looking? Thrifting is the best way IMHO for lots of items. Not only is it cheaper, but it cuts down on demand for manufacturing/constant consuming with is way out to lunch nowadays. As for useless money..... I would say everyone should take a St. John's First Aid course NOW and have on hand emergency medical supplies. People are not being educated on the truth about health, therefore are reliant on others to heal them. I wonder about people who are reliant on prescription drugs? My personal belief is that prevention of disease and illness is more important, and I also feel that there is a lot of energy put into making and keeping people sick for the sake of profit (in multiple industries, whether or not it is a co-ordinated effort, I don't really know). I am fortunate enough to not have any serious illness at this time. But there was a time when I was VERY sick (industry existing for profits, not safety) for several years. The doctors said I had a very compromised immune system. I made a decision to get better, and I did. We have the power to grow or deplete our good health. I believe in this, but I don't know if it is true for all?? Permanent damage from disease/injury notwithstanding. Maybe. I think municipalities and RMs/Countys will still require taxes be paid in cash. Did I read somewhere that in the last depression a lot of property went back to local gov'ts due to taxes that could not be paid? What to do? |
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Now we eat minimally both before and after. My big issue is that I cook to much. At first, I kept fantasizing things and creating them, deserts in particular. About 5 months in I suddenly realized, "Gee, could I possibly be more stupid?" Well, of course the answer to that question was, YES! I'm rather talented at being stupid, but does that mean I need to ASPIRE to being stupid? Isn't this whole process about improving? Since that little lecture, I've been able to curb my tendencies somewhat. 
