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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 22, 2011 6:08:35 GMT -5
Please do remember! I've got a great space for tents right between the parsley and the beets, just under an apple tree! ;o)
Well, Heidi, you got better salmon and crab than we do, but when it comes to shrimp, scallops, and fish... let me just say that glow in the dark or not, east coast has the best!
I wish you well with your med assignment. That's an awesome thing to do. It would also give you the opportunity to be a seed courier unless there are rules against it. Perhaps you could check?
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Post by heidihi on Mar 23, 2011 8:15:13 GMT -5
OH honey I will not argue I grew up in New England!!! our crab, sturgeon, crab, salmon, halibut...oysters and we do have brilliant mussels in Penns Cove ..to die for ..in fact I found a recipe for mussels with all kinds of spring greens/herbs and horseradish I am going to make this weekend ..along with some nettle beer ..but I digress
but you have it when it comes to clams, many fish especially snapper, scallops omg yes!!! and the shrimp on the East Coast and sadly what used to be in the Gulf ..are outstanding ..
I am torn to be honest ..we get some really nice fish from Hawaii as well here
and
we do get great prawns from Alaska however with an amazing roe on them
but they are no match for the east coast shrimp...our little bay shrimp are wonderful
ok seafood give me a coast any coast!!!
we have so little room to bring anything on these trips I usually take socks as many pairs of socks as I can shove in corners ..but I could put seeds in the socks ..no they do not care about seeds people do it all the time ...but socks are what folks need socks and underwear
I will not be going for a while and it may not even be Japan to be honest ..it is on the top of my list but the world is an endless pit of need so it could be to Haiti since things are going into phase two of infection after the storm and people are burning out
I am getting a world of crazy calls about potassium iodide tablets...PLEASE KNOW YOU COULD DO SOME SERIOUS DAMAGE TAKING THIS KIND OF THING IF YOU DO NOT NEED IT! (just a little PSA) we are already fine here in the US with the food we eat ..our thyroids are well protected from a the slight chance some radiation will cross over...
I feel really rude that I digressed this far in the thread ..it is about intentional communities..I guess I lied ..a medical team is like an intentional community to be honest ..we work together sleep together and eat together ..sometimes folks are hermity and do not "share" time food or space..but I figure you have to do what each individual needs to to get the mission done this is not about anything but the mission
I prefer to share when I travel like this and be "part" of the story ..it makes the decompressing easier when I can share stories time and food ...but long term ..no way
I am not that easy to get along with!
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Post by mnjrutherford on Mar 23, 2011 8:24:46 GMT -5
What I wouldn't give for a beautiful halibut steak! I REALLY want to road trip up to Maine for 2 things:
1. To eat lobster just that fresh.
2. Take Mike to see Niagara Falls before his vision gets any worse.
Don't forget the Copper River salmon you have your way. Oh man, cure in vodka and dill fragranced salt... Thin slices with paper thin slices of red onion on grilled bagel... or pumpernickel...
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Post by heidihi on Mar 23, 2011 8:36:39 GMT -5
yup you have obviously been here and do not forget ..Copper River salmon on a cedar plank  ok enough I have to go be productive! in my own intentional community we are still a bunch of old hippies! HAH! |
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Post by steev on Apr 1, 2011 22:12:10 GMT -5
Old hippies? Foo! I am still a young hippy. What was the point of all those drugs if not to develop alternative reality? Well, maybe I'm not so young first thing in the morning anymore, but I'm doing it on the natch and it's still a trip! Wish I still had my VW bus camper. Wish I still had my physique. Hmm, wish hand doesn't seem to be filling as fast as the other. No biggie; I've got a farm; life is good. Keep on Truckin' and remember, kids, speed kills.
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Post by synergy on Apr 1, 2011 23:19:34 GMT -5
heidihi, I am getting squeamish on the thought of how our shelfish are going to fare especially with how long this Fukishima clusterf--k carries on, weeks, months , years ? I am having a hard time mentally after being sort of reverant for a few decades about our soils and waters and keeping everything organic then to have to worry about cesium in the food and water just boggles my little brain. Everyone says no worries , well this time I do not put much faith in the people around me or the government bodies.
How on earth can people think nuclear weapons or power are not up there with biological warfare ? I am just sickened by all the nations who quietly consume nuke power mortgaging their childrens childrens welfare .
Funny but today a read on a forum of a woman who never looked much into intentional communities but decided if SHTF she would drive 14 hours to one she read about on the internet and just show up empty handed to be taken in . I am sure that kind of commitment is exactly what an intentional community needs to be sustainable, especially in a crisis...
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Post by garnetmoth on Apr 2, 2011 8:41:00 GMT -5
Yeah- Im not trying to get all "the end of the world is nigh" but we are looking into getting a ceramic water filter, and packing a few 5-gallon rice and lentil bug-out-buckets.
If we need to split anywhere, we plan to show up with a box of seeds, a week or 2 of food, and our mad skills ;-)
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Post by steev on Apr 3, 2011 20:39:30 GMT -5
Bug-out buckets. Thinking along those lines, it occurs to me that if things got real bad real fast, I probably can't carry much, because the roads out of the Bay Area will likely be impossible in short order. So the question is: can I pack enough water and calories for the four days it would take me to walk to the farm? Assuming I'm still up to walking 12 hours, sleeping on the ground, and getting up to do it again, and again, and again. Prolly not; guess I'll keep trying to prevent SHTF.
However, if worse comes to worst, that empty-handed woman is just the sort I'll welcome on the farm for dinner. Everyone has something to contribute.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 4, 2011 11:37:48 GMT -5
Everyone CAN play a survival role in such a scenario. I think the real trick is knowing what you want it to be and implementing the process at the appropriate time. If we get our community started as far in advance as we hope, we should have a high enough level of productivity that we can accept folks of various levels of ability and with or without "gifts" such as seed, equipment, reference materials, etc.
My thoughts are to begin with large buildings that would at first house the start up groups then, as the community expands and individual homes are built, these central buildings would house a large community kitchen that could serve meals as well as be used for preserving and storing foodstuffs en masse, a hospital/laundry/"hotel", a vetrinary clinic, and a crafts center/school. Individuals living in their own homes would be able, as example, to eat at home or in the community dining room. They could participate in the communal storage of foods but would also be encouraged to maintain stores in their own homes. They would be expected to spend time working with community crops and "labor" but they would also be able to garden their home areas and do trade outside the immediate community.
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Post by steev on Apr 4, 2011 22:47:55 GMT -5
America has always been a hotbed of such utopian plans; more power to you!
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Post by synergy on Apr 4, 2011 23:45:51 GMT -5
I have no doubt that most people have something to contribute but I don't think providing for everyone is so easy to be able to' take in' a lot of people and where exactly do you draw the line ? I know my place will likely be a magnet destination for lots of people who are not exactly invited simply because they think, oh she gardens and has a well and chickens (uh four chickens is not going to last long and if people think they are eating them you won't have eggs or stock to rebreed if you are in a long term situation say of 6 months or more) At least ten people I plan on trying to accomodate on my four acres but feeding 10 , having medical supplies etc when others are not contributing is really difficult. Can you provide one meal and turn someone away after that? What if they decide to squat exactly because you have food production or steal , can you afford drawing that attention? Also how many people exactly do you know who have the discipline to work full out to do what has to be done ? The ones that decide last minute to pack a backpack and show up somewhere to be taken in, do not sound like the ones who are commited to the effort if takes to survive say a disaster like Japan has had and there you see international relief and government efforts, as well as local. Now depending on how big and long term the crisis how do you provide for everyone ? You are limited . Intentional to me means trying to provide for my family and possibly my boyfriends family but when I am a single mother looking to put in the infrastructure on my own that becomes precarious . If everyone pitched in to help and contributed to the gardens and alternate energy solar panels, water catchement and filtration etc, it would be a much different story but they don't. You get the classic situation of the little red hen who sacrifices and does all the work and when the time comes everyone just feels entitled to show up? I absolutely know I don't provide what we eat now so there is no way I can grow and put up food and make a living and maintain the farm as one person and provide for others I never intended to. I see when I grow and give herbs and fruit and eggs now, I can't just load up everyone with a dozen eggs or I run out of them to feed my two kids. So it is an occassional gift to people. I welcome my family to help if they want to garden or raise meat birds here, but they don't pitch in to do that for themselves under ideal circumstance so how do you suddenly think people will be super productive in a crisis to suddenly show up and make a go of it.
Also where we are in a semi suburban community of small acreages, we already see multigenerations on some little acreages and few are set up in the least to be self sufficient. For certain they will have friends or family beeline for their small holdings too and I tend to think why are these people not planning ahead and invest in the food, planting, livestock, infrastructure if they think they are going to have to rely on it?
The time to commit to build an intentional community is now and it takes a lot of input and dedication , investment and actual sweat.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 5, 2011 2:55:58 GMT -5
Precisely, the time to start is now. The time to plan and implement is now. The time to answer the questions you pose Synergy, is now. That's what my plan does. Takes into account growth, a beginning draft of the "laws", etc. Of course it wouldn't be for everyone and it certainly isn't for the average mindset that most people have today. However, people do change, constantly, to adapt to whatever situations occur.
Also, there is no community on earth that did not begin as an intentional community. It CAN happen, it DOES happen, and as long as there are people, even a few, it WILL happen. As for what the rules will be, that will be the venue of whomever becomes the community leader.
Of course there are limits. When have limits ever not existed? We live with them, right? People are born, they live, they die. They get sick or hurt and if there is medicine appropriate to the ailment or injury, there can be healing. If not, there is death. People who don't follow the law of the community are punished. None of these questions are new or different. It's how they are answered that defines people groups.
What would be more important is to comprehend that there IS power in numbers. The more people you can bring together in a cohesive and functional community the greater all the members chances of survival will be. If you are planning to just stick to your little plot of land and never have more than 4 chickens, what do you really think your children's odds of survival will be? Not your chances, your children's, grandchildren, and on down.
On the other hand, if I take a few thousand acres of land; set up a growth plan, lay down reasonable laws and rules, give sanctuary to those who prove themselves productive, and make purposeful strides towards making it sustainable into the unforeseeable future... Well then, my community could easily continue to exist for many years, centuries, perhaps even millennia. Certainly it wouldn't be the first time the process was accomplished. Hopefully, it wouldn't be the last.
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Post by garnetmoth on Apr 6, 2011 10:32:36 GMT -5
Synergy: I grew up a city kid. We are raising chickens, rabbits, and quail in the city now. Im learning. I can make a good cage, skin an animal, save seeds for a whole bunch of things. Im getting experience.
We are working hard to get our house paid off early and have started saving money for emergencies, and hope to save enough to buy land near like-minded folks. We have started buying extra food, tools, and making plans to incrementally increase our capacity to survive well. We are learning from folks we know in person, and folks we have met through the internet.
If things get "real bad real quick" I dont know if we would have the resilience yet to survive, but to not assess the situation is not going to get me anywhere. (we live in a decent sized city, with a fair amount of gun violence- Id not want to be here long term if society takes a steep turn for the worse)
We're putting our feelers out there. I can totally understand you and your children come first for your situation.
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Post by mnjrutherford on Apr 6, 2011 16:32:54 GMT -5
I'll take you at my place Kelli! ANYtime! ;o)
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Post by synergy on Apr 6, 2011 17:27:00 GMT -5
I advise people there are lots of seniors with farms and acreages who could really use a hand, other single middle aged women who can't take a day off their farms to have a holiday, and even serious growers like Joseph, people who would welcome a hand in a harvest or getting hay in before the rain etc. If you invest time ahead into helping with a place, you stand to be more welcome because those people have invested more than you can even imagine into their farms for decades . People willing to invest some of their own time, money and sweat into the situation in order that it can accomodate them are going to have some rapport and place. I have noticed Joseph say he cannot even get unemployed and people on assistance out to help in exchange for produce and that is more the case than not. So if you want to make inroads to haing an alternative place in an emergency, I would suggest a good way would be to invest of your own time, energy and money so that it could accomodate you. Its a thought.
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