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Post by billw on Apr 4, 2013 16:58:27 GMT -5
I know it runs counter to many gardeners, but I figure that gardens aren't museums. If there aren't enough people interested in growing a variety to keep it going, maybe that variety doesn't need to exist.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Apr 4, 2013 17:18:38 GMT -5
If there aren't enough people interested in growing a variety to keep it going, maybe that variety doesn't need to exist. And thus begins the first great flame war of the 2013 growing season.... Destined to rank among the all time greats: like the "Best Tasting Tomato" battle of 2012, and the Terra Preta war of 2010. I certainly don't expect anyone to maintain my varieties after I am gone. They have utility to me today, and in my garden, and climate, but in the end, they are just seeds. It's easy enough to create landraces to thrive in any garden that they might happen to thrive in. |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 4, 2013 20:46:56 GMT -5
I can speak from personal experience that Cucurbits from GRIN are a crossed-up mess. In a hundred foot row of plants of Jersey Golden Acorn I had one plant that ended up looking like the old photographs. There was a lot of squash yes, but most of it was green and very little of it was even remotely acorn shaped.
This basically means that anything in the system that had been bred with recessive traits is mostly ruined. Especially things like naked seeded cultivars which will lose the naked seeded traits in the first outcross.
Elwyn Meader had bred some interesting naked seeded squash, Sweetnut being considered the best of them. It is unavailable anywhere and I'm certain the GRIN accession would be useless. I had requested some Sweetnut from a SSE lister but it dropped into the black hole. Thanks ME BR H!
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Post by steev on Apr 4, 2013 22:50:56 GMT -5
It's probably with the three varieties of shallots I ordered a couple years back.
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Post by Drahkk on Apr 4, 2013 23:43:14 GMT -5
I can speak from personal experience that Cucurbits from GRIN are a crossed-up mess. In a hundred foot row of plants of Jersey Golden Acorn I had one plant that ended up looking like the old photographs. There was a lot of squash yes, but most of it was green and very little of it was even remotely acorn shaped. Sorry to go off topic, but... that reminds me: you sent some Jersey Golden Acorn a couple of months ago (thank you!), and being as they are nearly impossible to find I want to grow at least a couple in isolation for seed. It IS a pepo like most acorns, correct? Also wondering if Table Gold might be the same thing. sustainableseedco.com/heirloom-vegetable-seeds/pe-t/squash-heirloom-seeds/winter-squash-seeds/table-gold-squash-seeds.html They look similar, and are attributed to Dr. Shifriss like Jersey Golden. Do you think it could be? MB |
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Post by oxbowfarm on Apr 5, 2013 7:38:28 GMT -5
I don't know the answer for certain. They are definitely both golden acorn squash with the precocious yellow gene. My understanding is that Table Gold was bred separately from genetic lines parallel to JGA but is not descended from it. But that is only something I read online someplace and couldn't find again when I just searched for it, so it's just a random internet rumor.
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Post by dustdevil on Apr 5, 2013 14:17:31 GMT -5
I got a note from Will last night that said in a note last night that he needs between $20-$40k to maintain his collection. Glenn Drowns needs about the same (Sandhill). They are both concerned that SSE is going to throw out what is in their freezers, and that germplasm will be lost forever. Potatoes and squash....all lost. I'm not sure what to do or how to help. Not having won the lottery this year...or any other for that matter. I figure I'll send a wee bit of money to each of them and send a note to SSE, requesting that they return germplasm in the freezers to the curators. Maybe I'll ask Glenn or Will for help composing a note. You all know how I feel about the loss of diversity! In general, it appears that when any collection gets too big it is extremely difficult to maintain. GRIN, SSE, etc. have money and they can't fully manage what they have. I think some new management techniques are sorely needed. Definitely more outside dedicated manpower/womanpower is needed. A few people trying to run the whole show doesn't seem to work! |
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Post by steev on Apr 5, 2013 15:17:06 GMT -5
That seems to be the case with so many things.
If they intend to discard things, they might at least try to make them available to others before dumping.
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 5, 2013 19:17:54 GMT -5
Will has asked us all to sit tight through negotiations with SSE. If they can't come to an agreement, he'll give us a shout. Thanks you all.
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 11, 2013 14:26:29 GMT -5
What follows is a note from Will Bonsall:
I am compiling a contact list
of those who wish to participate in the new group and/or to share ideas.
If you are not on the list and wish to be (or ARE on the list and wish NOT to be), please contact me
at wabonsall@gmail.com, or snail-mail 39 Bailey Rd., Industry ME 04938 (SASE).
Joseph, Oxbow, Lieven, Tritax and many others of you with grand seed collections, I highly recommend that you participate.
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Post by trixtrax on Apr 11, 2013 23:00:11 GMT -5
Thanks Holly. Spoke with him on the phone today, let's do this thing! Rock n roll
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Post by steev on Apr 12, 2013 0:26:38 GMT -5
I sent him my info.
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Post by bunkie on Apr 12, 2013 10:30:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Holly!
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Post by 12540dumont on Apr 12, 2013 11:05:19 GMT -5
Just in case you are wondering, yes, it's okay to list:
Your own developments
Landraces
F1 hybrids, as long as they are so indicated.
Cheaper than SSE and more responsive.
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Post by paquebot on Apr 12, 2013 11:29:07 GMT -5
The situation with SSE and what some now worry about is being careful of what one wishes for. It seems that the current problem boils down to lack of funds. Wasn't too long ago that certain members of this forum were calling for a boycott of SSE and discontinuing membership. There are also those who claim that everything SSE sells is too high. Then they all fault SSE for not having the funds to continue a project. Sort of like shooting oneself in the foot and shows that their first campaign was a success. If you campaign for the death of something, it's hard to justify complaining about its death.
Martin
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