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Post by philagardener on Dec 2, 2016 18:40:49 GMT -5
toomanyirons , we have taken to planting our potatoes in the fall. They don't all survive the winter in the ground, but most of them do and it solves the whole storage issue as well as saving us time in the spring. . . . . . an awful lot of my fellow Canadians simply don't save potato seed from year to year but buy it new each spring. I've also started planting in the Fall, to good success. Fingerlings seem most hardy, but most types make it through and emerge remarkably early in the Spring. (I remember being concerned about late frosts!) I get bigger tubers and larger yields that way. Saving and replanting is another point where I believe our thinking has been manipulated by big ag. I heard for years never to replant store bought tubers, never to save my own, all because of concerns about disease. Maybe that is an issue, but I haven't had any problem replanting and saving my own.
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Post by steev on Dec 2, 2016 19:23:39 GMT -5
This is why I started Fall-planting; some sprouted and got "cold-pruned", but being well-mulched, I think they will mostly survive; it's not like I don't have enough work in the Spring.
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Post by jocelyn on Dec 3, 2016 9:14:32 GMT -5
I have an early round white that is sitting in the living room, warmest room in the house, and shows no sign of growth. I have a blue volunteer that went down in late August, also no sprouting. Not enough data to make a generalization, so I googled dormancy and maturity dates.
ir.library.oregonstate.edu/xmlui/bitstream/.../SR%20no.%20859_ocr.pdf
Sierra is mid season to late, and has short dormany. HiLite Russet is early and has good dormancy Krantz is mid season and has short dormany Russet Norkotah is very early and has medium dormancy
Hope this helps.
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Post by reed on Dec 3, 2016 13:01:08 GMT -5
For me in recent decades, I used to buy and plant seed potatoes each spring. I don't have a nice cellar like the old folks did so I can't store a crop for seed, not even enough for the full winter. In more recent years though I have discovered the fall planting method and have done that some with my own saved ones. I'm not very familiar with different varieties and maturity times.
The old folks did exactly as you mentioned, replanted in spring with ones left over from winter. I do seem to recall a time or two hearing that supply was short and the rest had to be saved for seed. I don't believe that was of actual necessity, I think seed was available at the feed mill and the like but granddad would not have bought them, nor would dad.
I have a couple and intend to get more large coolers from yard sales and anywhere else I see them cheap. I'm going to bury them and make super insulated lids and see if it works for winter storage of a larger potato crop and other things.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 4, 2016 1:26:13 GMT -5
In my garden, potatoes are not reliably winter hardy. I might have volunteers for a year or two or three in a row, but I also might have a year or two in a row when there are no volunteers from tubers. So while I could plant in the fall, and get a harvest, I can't expect to do that consistently. And even if I do get a harvest, it won't be ready to harvest any earlier than if I had planted them in the spring.
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Post by Joseph Lofthouse on Dec 4, 2016 1:59:40 GMT -5
How does anyone farther north than me with a very short growing season, ... keep their seed tubers through their long winters without those tubers sprouting well before planting time? ... I am also questioning how I am storing tubers. What if my storage methods are to blame for the sprouting, not the tubers themselves? I have been wondering if there are different storage methods for seed tubers versus food tubers, I have been storing both practically adjacent to each other over the years. I store my food tubers in cold/dark. I store my planting tubers in bright light and warm conditions. (Out of direct sunlight in a closet that has a west facing window and a temperature of around 60 F.) The bright light keeps any sprouts very short. Turns the potatoes deep green. They get as wrinkly as can be. Totally inedible, but also totally plantable. I've been storing potatoes this way for as long as I've been growing from pollinated seeds, so I've been inadvertently selecting for genetics that work with my storage conditions.
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Post by steev on Dec 4, 2016 2:50:24 GMT -5
I wonder what would happen if you planted in Fall and heavily mulched; you might need to rake off the mulch, after frost, in Spring, and then return it as things grow: spuds often grow through mulch. I think your conditions are not so much different from mine, although my season is a bit longer.
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Post by nathanp on Dec 4, 2016 9:24:32 GMT -5
Planting in fall can be done in some areas, but risks killing the tubers if the soil freezes deep enough. Some tubers have greater frost resistance than others. I typically see purples over wintering much more frequently than others. I have some that reliably will survive -3F and one that has survived several nights as low as -7F. It is too cold where I am to reliably plant tuber in the fall. The other risk with this, is even if they overwinter, and sprout in April, the stems are at risk of frost damage (and killing the plant) if I get frosts in late April. I am on the edge of zone 7a/6b, and some winters they survive better than others. Typically this is a very bad thing for me, and I need to be weeding these, as they are early season food for surviving CPB that have overwintered.
There are people breeding for high frost resistance in both tuber and stem, and those are different genetics for each. You can certainly select for that trait, but the majority of commercial tubers or those descended from them won't survive zone 6 or colder. I have one yellow skinned TPS potato that survived like a champ last winter, and it yielded better than any of the purples that overwintered for me. I transplanted it last spring (needed to rotate crops), and am saving the resulting tubers to replant next year. Selection for frost resistant tubers and high yield.
I have several tubers from the Chiloe area of Chile that are near perennials. They have such high frost resistance that they are difficult to get rid of, and even very tiny tubers will resprout in the spring and form vigorous plants. Papa Chonca, Morada Ojuda and Low Bay are three that I have grown like this. TPS from Morada Ojuda also reliably overwinters. They also, unfortunately, are very densely rooting, and spread with very long stolons many feet from the center of the plant, so they can quickly invasively colonize wide areas of soil - for good or ill. The long stolons deposit potato tubers many feet from the plant center, which then overwinter and sprout to become new plants.
Regarding tuber storage and different genetic groups --- if you want to generalize: Chilean tubers (tuberosum chilotanum group) or those derived from them have longer dormancy than Peruvian (tuberosum andigenum group). The vast majority of commercial potatoes are descended mostly from the chilotanum group. Stenotonum diploids have greater dormancy than phureja diploids. S. tuberosum phureja group diploids were selected from the larger group of stenotonum group diploids, selected for NO dormancy. Where they are grown, potatoes can be grown year-round, so they are replanted immediately after harvesting. Phureja diploids typically have the best flavor. For someone breeding potatoes looking for high genetic diverisy, the trick is making wide crosses between different types, and then selecting for the traits you want as they segregate, such as good flavor with high dormancy. You might not get that if you just toss all those that have low dormancy.
It is worth keeping some potatoes that have traits you make not like, because they have some traits you like a lot.
Regarding dormancy, cultivated or commercial potatoes typically are selected for high dormancy in temperate regions. Hybrids that include other genetics such as andigena or phureja will be more variable.
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Post by jondear on Dec 4, 2016 13:27:36 GMT -5
My 2016 tps plants were a total bust. Colorado potato beetles were relentless this year. Even my tuber planted patch took it hard. Most only got to golf ball size or a little larger before the plants were completely defoliated. We've been enjoying them roasted, but bigger ones for other uses would be nice.
Hoping for better production in 2017.
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Post by nathanp on Dec 4, 2016 16:48:46 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that Jon. Did you have anything at all from your TPS worth saving?
Jon - CPB was very bad here too. I must have spent 2-3 hours nearly every week hand picking. I am planning to wait and plant my tubers the weekend of June 10-11. Hopefully the ones that survive the winter come out and find no food, and starve.
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jocundi
gopher
Tinkering with fruits and veggies in Eastern Boreal Forest on Canadian Shield.
Posts: 28
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Post by jocundi on Dec 9, 2016 8:43:10 GMT -5
We are zone 4b and have tubers surviving very well. I wonder whether higher zones don't have a good snow cover and so the survival rate is lower? Here the snow cover's usually really good, but no real spring. Consistently, snow will melt around April 20 and then the planting begins. I find that my fall planted tubers sprout later and grow slower as if being afraid of frosts, and no better harvest either. My 2017 project is to see how seed potatoes selected from bushes with highest yield and tuber quality perform as I always planted leftovers and thought there's got to be a better way. However, I didn't see any issues planting potatoes with foot long sprouts before - I would lay them down horizontally in the soil and get "a line of bushes" instead of one plant and pretty good yield. I am also excited to plant my TPS originally from Tom Peters that I grew fo about 3 years and now collected the seed in 2016. I would expect them to be better adapted to our soil and climate.
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Post by jocelyn on Dec 9, 2016 10:18:04 GMT -5
I get a lot of tubers that winter over too, and I'm in the Gulf of St Lawrence, zone 6a/5b, depending on the year. Sometimes I run into trouble where a seedling comes up in the food patch and I eat one I would rather have saved.........but expect it to be a tuber grown one that I planted for dinner. Sometimes, it's the only tuber, sigh. Still, that gardener's mantra, next year, next year, grin.
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Post by jondear on Dec 9, 2016 17:47:03 GMT -5
Sorry to hear that Jon. Did you have anything at all from your TPS worth saving? Jon - CPB was very bad here too. I must have spent 2-3 hours nearly every week hand picking. I am planning to wait and plant my tubers the weekend of June 10-11. Hopefully the ones that survive the winter come out and find no food, and starve. A few from first year tubers look promising... Hopefully next year they'll have a better chance to shine.
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