SSE technical question

[billw]

Nov 15, 2016 18:36:43 GMT -5 steev said:

So what IS the breeding being done for?

Primarily biofuels and commercial inulin production.

[prairiegarden]

Many people in North America also have the idea that if they save seed to grow it will automatically be inferior, possibly inedible. I can't count the number of times I have heard people talk about ripping out volunteer tomato plants and then buying transplants for the garden. Quite a few think that if they were hybrid tomato seed then the fruit will be awful and never have an answer if you ask them why, it's just something they've been told. It never made any sense to me why if you put two great tomatoes together the next generations wouldn't likely be great too, even if different in some ways from parents, for example.

And it's astonishing how many people - gardeners - who don't know there's a difference between GMO and hybrid.

On a local gardening group I encouraged a young gardener to protect and foster a couple of volunteers and she acted as though she'd been given permission to climb Mount Everest, so excited and pleased, it was so charming ( but made me feel old and jaded). I have hopes it worked out well, if so, she will be hooked for life, like first time casino players winning a jackpot.

[billw]

The responsibility for these ideas lies largely with seed companies, unfortunately. How do you get people to give up on a variety that produces its own seed for free every year so that they will come buy it from you instead? Convince them that it is hard to save your own seeds, requires specialized knowledge and procedures, and that it entails the risk of having a crop failure the next year. GMO hysteria is also largely a product of seed companies, as they scramble to differentiate themselves from other companies not quite as quick to disavow GMOs, even though there is probably no seed company anywhere that sells GMO varieties in backyard quantities.

[prairiegarden]

you have much more faith than I do in that regard. Some years back Stokes started selling Flv R SvR (something like that) corn and I think tomato seed and it was genetically manipulated seed. They sell to a great many people who are backyard gardeners as well as the commercial outfits. A few years back they dropped the safe seed pledge and now are a Syngenta associated company. Gene work is what Syngenta does, as far as I know.

also, Vilmorin which is a huge seed company supplying many smaller outlets with seed, said maybe 5 or 6 years ago now that it was going to start stocking/selling GMO seed. I assume they are, don't know.

[steev]

What could be more Capitalistically ravenous than seizing control of food through legal/propagandistic, dis-informational means; what an effective way to control the "unworthy" masses, the "takers".

The profit-extractive economy, as opposed to community reciprocity, is fundamentally estranging people from their connections to the real world; as one becomes independent of one's community, one loses a sense of responsibility there-to; thus arises the locust/army-ant model of social behavior. Take the money and run (to a gated community, where you can bring in peasants to do the work you're too busy/good for; just be sure they're out before dark, so the voluntary security guards don't get stressed by having to shoot them).

I know; I rant, but his shit chaps my ass.

[billw]

I assume that both of those companies must have divisions that sell farm quantity. GMO seeds come with a contract, so you can't just buy a seed packet and go on your merry way. I don't think anyone sold Flavr Savr seed, as the company that developed it worked with contract growers. They wanted full control over it, since intellectual property protections on GMO plants hadn't really been tested yet in the 90s, but perhaps it briefly went on the market before they canceled it? The Flavr Savr was canned after just a couple of years because of its poor flavor, ironically.

[zeedman]

Nov 15, 2016 20:06:31 GMT -5 billw said:

The responsibility for these ideas lies largely with seed companies, unfortunately. How do you get people to give up on a variety that produces its own seed for free every year so that they will come buy it from you instead? Convince them that it is hard to save your own seeds, requires specialized knowledge and procedures, and that it entails the risk of having a crop failure the next year.

You left out a step. Buy up the company which produces that OP seed, discontinue it, replace it with a hybrid, and tell everyone how much better the hybrid is. Then tell them that if they like it, they need to keep buying it. Sounds kind of like a drug dealer, now that I think of it... keep them coming back for their fix.

[steev]

Well, did they really say the flavor they were saving was good, or just that it was being saved; these hair-splitting differences are important in legally-binding contracts. It's not like they were promising a good product and shaking hands with somebody they'd ever see again. OMG! This has me thinking about our President-elect. I need to mental-floss.

[paquebot]

Bill, problem with sunchokes is the lack of interest. In all my years I have never seen them available in grocery stores or supermarkets. I personally only know of one person who ever grew them and that was over 30 years ago. Some community gardens even has them on the no-grow lists. Putting a lot of time and energy into something that nobody wants is a fool's folly.

I devoted a lot of time and effort into a rutabaga. First nursed some old seed to life and tended the seedlings to maturity. Then devoted space in underground storing. Planted some roots back made certain that nothing could cross with the blossoms. Took extreme care to make certain that the seeds were collected and properly stored. To make certain that the seed was true to type, grew it back this year. Nibbled on some raw this afternoon. Have space reserved for storing some for winter use. But who else cares? Find anyone else who is growing Vyshegorodskya rutabaga and tell me why I should continue when nobody else gives a damn if they ever even heard of it.

Martin

[Joseph Lofthouse]

I grow sunroots and sell them at the farmer's market.

Some people have never heard of them, but will buy anything just for the novelty.
Some people ate them as children and buy them for the nostalgia.
Some people love them and buy them every time I take them.

This fall a chef at one of the local restaurants turned 50 pounds of them into soup for his weekly special.

However, sunroots are definitely a crop that I had to develop a clientèle for. They're not like tomatoes that fly off the table. I'm the only one at my market that offers sunroots, so people that like them get them from me.

The first few years were a fool's folly for me. But nowadays, I have patrons, reputation, and experience, so sunroots are easy enough to sell.

It helped when I stopped offering to harm my patrons. SunCHOKES is bad for marketing. Jerusalem Artichokes is even worse! Cause that is still choking my patrons, and people say that they don't like artichokes: Never-mind that sunroot tubers don't taste like artichokes. So I only call them sunroots. And if people press me for details, I'll only say, "They are the root of a sunflower, Here, take a sample".

[steev]

They've been available in NorCal foodie markets for years, quite popular; we leave the windows open, the weather being mild. I really like them par-boiled, then salted, buttered, parmesaned, and baked a bit.

paquebot: I expressed interest in that rutabaga on another thread; haven't heard from you; is this just about resentment at lack of interest, or do you want to spread this material?

[billw]

I also sell a good amount of sunchokes (as seed, not food). They certainly have their admirers. I see them more as a crop with interesting potential than actualized, but I like working with crops that have that kind of gap. I would definitely like to produce a more digestible variety, as I just can't tolerate very much inulin.

[paquebot]

Nov 16, 2016 2:12:07 GMT -5 steev said:

baked a bit.

paquebot: I expressed interest in that rutabaga on another thread; haven't heard from you; is this just about resentment at lack of interest, or do you want to spread this material?

I had no recollection of ever mentioning that variety on this forum and I have never offered it on this forum. A search can only find it on this thread. Rutabagas also are suited only for growing in cool-weather areas. That's why many in supermarkets come from Canada.

Martin

[steev]

Right; so that was not the variety you mentioned in this thread on November 14, 2016? My bad, I thought it was another thread. My question was whether you had seed, given that you seemed to be bitching that nobody wanted it. You've still not answered that simple question, only stated your conviction that growing it is unsuitable south of Canada.

So I repeat; is this just about resentment of lack of interest, or do you want to spread this material?

You will note, I hope, that I have not requested this material, so your declaration that you have not offered it on this forum is irrelevant, and your declaration that you are the sole guardian of this material is immaculately true. Congratulations.

[paquebot]

Nov 15, 2016 20:43:25 GMT -5 prairiegarden said:

you have much more faith than I do in that regard. Some years back Stokes started selling Flv R SvR (something like that) corn and I think tomato seed and it was genetically manipulated seed. .

I don't believe that any Flavr Savr tomato seed was ever available to home gardeners. I even put out a reward for some seeds but nobody could ever track any down. It had the early spoiling gene turned off, same gene lacking in Giraffe, Stoney's, and other long keepers. It would have been a great variety to cross into great varieties with very short shelf life./

Martin