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Post by billw on Oct 30, 2016 22:01:41 GMT -5
I would ask this at the SSE forum, but apparently it has been shut down. Maybe I'm a dope, but when I search using the new exchange, I just get pages and pages of items that have been discontinued. Is there any way to search only for items that are available?
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Post by zeedman on Oct 30, 2016 23:11:10 GMT -5
Yes, I too observed that the SSE Forum had disappeared. Kind of saw that coming, there was really nothing left there but spam, and questions posed to SSE which went unanswered. It was a ghost town.
The Exchange database has been inoperative; I've been trying in vain for a month to update my listings, but none of my previous entries were accessible. However, I contacted their IT last Friday, who told me that the problem is system-wide, and they were working on it.
I just checked again now, and was able to access my listings. When I browsed a category & clicked on a variety, both discontinued & currently offered entries appeared. Hopefully the system stays operational, so members can update their listings. It remains to be seen whether this version of the Exchange will correct problems identified in the previous incarnation, and whether it will be completely functional. There does not appear to be an advanced search which will show only seeds that are available.
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Post by billw on Oct 31, 2016 0:47:39 GMT -5
For any plant that Will Bonsall was involved with, the place is a ghost town. There are 7 pages of Jerusalem artichoke listings and more than 95% of them are discontinued. Potatoes are similar. It looks like I should be able to get URLs with a script and filter the results off line. Maybe I'll spend some time reinventing that wheel later.
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Post by zeedman on Oct 31, 2016 17:37:08 GMT -5
I know what you mean, re: the absence of Will's listings. Potatoes have been picked up quite a bit by others, but some categories were decimated... such as Jerusalem artichokes, favas, and biennials. It's too bad Will was unable to offer his collection by other means. I still hope he (and others who dropped out of SSE) find a way to share their offerings with others... before they go extinct.
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Post by philagardener on Oct 31, 2016 18:42:59 GMT -5
Yes, Will's stocks seem very much on the edge.
It would be a huge loss if they go with him . . .
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Post by steev on Nov 1, 2016 2:00:40 GMT -5
Dare I say it, we need to make an effort to see that doesn't happen; if we don't do it, who will?
My own recently promising spud results give me hope to expand my varietal plantings. I'm not young, so maybe I'm a coot trying to preserve another coot's work, but hey! Coot Power!
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Post by billw on Nov 1, 2016 2:12:18 GMT -5
I contacted WB today about backing up a large part of his sunchoke collection and he got right back to me, so it sounds like he is still keeping all the balls in the air. I'm glad about that. I was a bit shocked by how few people are reoffering any of the many varieties that he has listed in the yearbook.
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Post by walt on Nov 1, 2016 12:19:16 GMT -5
I've been out of touch with SSE for some time. The membership fee was just too much for me. But I have 1 1/2 acres, and some of it could be a home for 'chokes. And I think I remember he had a huge collection of barley. I like to grow barley. And I wouldn't much have to worry about barley crossing.
As if anyone here worries about their crops crossing. But I do want the heirlooms to be kept as a seed bank, where the old is preserved. Both ways have theirs merits.
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Post by paquebot on Nov 15, 2016 0:47:34 GMT -5
If some of Will's varieties go extinct, the SSE would not be the cause. It would be because nobody else wanted to grow them. Eventually it becomes a one-man show that has no audience. The interest isn't what it was when SSE was formed. The thought then was that every variety of everything had to be saved. Now the question is why. Many are best stashed in Svalbard and forgotten. Some years back, someone offered a rutabaga which has only a few references on Russian sites. Only offered for a few years. Friend requested some 10 years ago. I grew some out in 2014. Saved several to plant back for seed in 2015. Offered them in 2016 Yearbook. Zero requests.
Martin
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Post by steev on Nov 15, 2016 1:56:28 GMT -5
Still got seed?
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Post by imgrimmer on Nov 15, 2016 3:36:03 GMT -5
Many are best stashed in Svalbard and forgotten. Is Svalbard only for saving seeds? Are they sending seeds to the world? I could not find a way to order. Any help is welcome  Some years back, someone offered a rutabaga which has only a few references on Russian sites. Only offered for a few years. Friend requested some 10 years ago. I grew some out in 2014. Saved several to plant back for seed in 2015. Offered them in 2016 Yearbook. Zero requests. I think not the number of requests is important, but diversity itself. If someone starts a landrace project varieties like this rutabaga are the best, most of them probably fail but maybe this special variety is the one. One can obtain diversity like that. I am very sceptical about these genbanks too. They are a good source for diversity but many are exclusive to scientists and they are restricted in some kind like import export restrictions and so on. You need to explain yourself say please and "beeree beeree by by" a thousand times make excuses for being an amateur breeder. Best is everyone is playing around and do exchange. Seed saving and keeping pure varieties is something for scientists not for life. Germany is worst in that case. Varieties must be pure since generations to be accepted. The most important thing is be sure plants only get selfed and so on. Otherwise no one will accept it. In german forums often you get questions like "Can I save seeds from my plants or will I get a poisoned variety out of it. Am I allowed to keep seeds? It seems it is written to everybodies mind "If you save seeds will get an inferiore plant out of it, always! Don`t do that!" In this perspective genbanks are a place for diversity. Let them do this highly dangerous job and let them risk their health. A garden is not a place for it. This is not the fault of genbanks itself but it supports the the idea that plant breeding doing some DIY stuff in your garden is nothing for an amateur. This is the end of any plant breeding and total acceptance of the seed industry. Okay I am a little bit off topic and pathetic but all I am saying is never stop trying |
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Post by paquebot on Nov 15, 2016 12:39:30 GMT -5
Svalbard is not a seed bank for gardeners. It is only for scientists and for preserving seeds forever in the frozen vaults.
Number of requests IS important. If I am the only one who is growing something and nobody else asks for the seeds, I have sole control over if that variety is perpetuated or becomes extinct. It is of no use to anyone else if they do not have it.
Martin
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Post by billw on Nov 15, 2016 14:32:21 GMT -5
I generally agree with the idea that, if nobody wants to grow a variety, it doesn't need to exist anymore. So long as there is good genetic diversity available for a given crop, there is little reason to fret about varieties going extinct.
In this case, there are few collections of superior sunchoke varieties; they are vegetatively propagated, so they can't just be warehoused at Svalbard; very little characterization has been done of what does exist, so it is hard to know which varieties might be most valuable; and in my experience, it is hard to reconstitute the better sunchoke phenotypes from seed. Even though there are hundreds of varieties, only about four are commonly grown. While there are institutional breeding programs for sunchoke, none of them appear to be focused on breeding for food value. I can potentially use that pool of diversity, so it is worth the time and money to try to back up at least some of it.
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Post by imgrimmer on Nov 15, 2016 15:48:37 GMT -5
paquebot First I want to say I didn`t wanted to be rude or critizise you. I am not sure about that as english is not my mother tongue and all the nuances of expression are hard for me for that reason. Your post was just the tipping that brought me to speak out my theoretical thoughts about that matter. I generally agree with the idea that, if nobody wants to grow a variety, it doesn't need to exist anymore. I agree. the point is that it is totally useless to save a variety just for itself, at least for gardeners. but it is very useful to breed with these heirloom varieties and create something new and mybe this will be interesting for others again... All these heirloom tomato varieties for instance are completely useless for outdoor growing here in Middle/ Northern Europe, most of them won`t bring a single ripe fruit on table if you don`t do a lot of work to protect them from normal life that plants normally should be used to. Nevertheless everybody is trying to keep it real and true exactly as it was when our ancestors walked on earth. That is absurd and a total waste of energy. And that is the bad point about all these heirloom stuff. Not keeping them but to refuse to work and breed with them. All these heirloom stuff only makes sense if you work with it, like our ancestors did.
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Post by steev on Nov 15, 2016 18:36:43 GMT -5
While there are institutional breeding programs for sunchoke, none of them appear to be focused on breeding for food value. I can potentially use that pool of diversity, so it is worth the time and money to try to back up at least some of it. So what IS the breeding being done for? |
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